Only thing I dont like with T4M is consolespam. Normally you could ignore consolespam, but with T4M and external console, all the consolespam can be seen and drops FPS a lot and makes some maps unplayable on co-op. I think, if you hide external console, this wont be problem, but I want to keep external always showing for some reason. Nothing more to this, carry on

If this had been an official update of the game there wouldn't have been any problems. There wouldn't be people saying you have to manage your assets to be in the original WaW (shitty) limits. So you can think it's just an update that improves the game. You install it once and forget about it the rest of the time.

+1 exactly right.

So you don't see the point in optimization? kden.

My big problem lies with mappers releasing these large file size maps that are as unoptimized as hell (I can recall maps that ran worse than Leviathan on my old PC but..you get it...) yet you get into the map, and you start wondering why other maps of MUCH larger scale got by without T4M but this didn't..and some of these maps don't even have that much in it, some just don't know how to remove FX, maybe remove bloody WAW guns, comment some sounds, etc., this lack of knowledge is acceptable but there are tutorials for this stuff, and there are other ways to get around it without a bloody DLL file.

Yes I understand this raises the bar for what we can do, yes I understand it takes 5 minutes less to install and yes I understand we've been asking for ages for this but I'm not downloading your 600MB box map which is hitting all limits because you forgot to remove some fx, sounds, etc.

Obviously in Stevie's example there is fuck all you can do, BO3 guns are large in size, same with guns from AW, etc. and if you came out with an update for Oil Rig that requires T4M I would gladly use it and play the game with it.

Same goes if FS Nuketown came out tomorrow and required T4M, I would have no issue, but if Box Plus v2 came out and it required it I would tell the maker to piss off.

So then the problem is the mapper and not the mod itself. Because it's honestly hard to distinguish what people are actually bitching about. For some people it seems they actually are against a mod that increases limits, others are just angry at what they see as laziness. Either way, the mod itself is brilliant and people need to stop shitting on everything that's good around here - it's beyond me why DUKIP et al even bothered to put in the effort to make such a useful mod when this is the response they get.

it requires more steps to follow, and people rather play the map then do additional steps i know you try frame it like wow 3 mb is nothing in a 600 mb map but if the map was 3 mb and dukip fix was 600 mb it would still be two seperate things not to mention the lanfix so 3 things instead of installer that does it all for you at once. i would play a map thats 4 gigs if it existed and worked but not if it had T4M fix on it no matter what size it is.

i would play a map thats 4 gigs if it existed and worked but not if it had T4M fix on it no matter what size it is.

That makes 0 sense.

what makes no sence? that i would do 1 step rather then 3?

I think the hate for T4M is a hivemind that comes from people who see hateful comments on shit maps that require it.

For example:
> boxmap gets posted that requires T4M
> other users rightfully tell this person to fuck off and manage their assets properly
> users see these comments as general hatred for maps requiring T4M
> users then assume "T4M = bad map"
> users post synonymous comments on any map that has T4M

If Leviathan or Requiem required T4M I wouldn't give a shit. However, the only maps I've seen that require it to be installed haven't been all that great.

what makes no sence? that i would do 1 step rather then 3?

That's almost as lazy, maybe even lazier, than the mappers requiring you to install T4M.

+1 exactly right.

So then the problem is the mapper and not the mod itself. Because it's honestly hard to distinguish what people are actually bitching about. For some people it seems they actually are against a mod that increases limits, others are just angry at what they see as laziness. Either way, the mod itself is brilliant and people need to stop shitting on everything that's good around here - it's beyond me why DUKIP et al even bothered to put in the effort to make such a useful mod when this is the response they get.

My problem isn't with T4M, I use it all the time, my problem is with mappers that are currently using it instead of commenting a few lines of sounds or fx, etc.

Like I said, if you update Oil Rig and it requires T4M I would have no issue dling it, because your mod IS pushing WaW, it is far from what was expected to be put on WaW and it's what I put as an "amazing" map, but someone who just can't see that sounds not being used are making them hit limits is a map I would not even consider.

I do agree the hate should not go towards T4M and should be directed towards mappers who just need to open their .csv's and comment a few lines..

people install&Play maps the same way for 7 years, making something this radical and edgy like T4M clearly OP and superior is maybe a bit late to introduce 2016 at the brink of death for codwaw zombies when people comfortably can install&play like they always been doing in the past...

people install&Play maps the same way for 7 years, making something this radical and edgy like T4M clearly OP and superior is maybe a bit late to introduce 2016 at the brink of death for codwaw zombies when people comfortably can install&play like they always been doing in the past...

WAW has always been at "the brink of death." I can't think of any time where we had a hayday and it was all peachy and nice. So what if we taught the old bastard a new trick? It's a matter of evolving. WAW isn't dead; we've just grown out of its limits. Hell, T4M isn't even for WAW IMO. It's getting us to pace ourselves before BO3 mod tools (if they come out). Sure, we might have had some better maps if it were released years ago, but no one knew how to do it. If there's call for a map to need T4M, then go right ahead. We don't have to be held back by that shit anymore, so why not splurge a little bit before we settle into a new game? No more combining world textures just to get everything cozy. No more worrying about that shitty 400fx limit and you can actually make a map look interesting with nice fx. This is a new way to play and 2 steps extra is well worth the fucking effort.

I understand that T4M is great and its amazing that DUKIP manage to raise the limits. To be honest I believe that if a map truly needs to run T4M then ya, definitely use it because you want to add more awesome to your map that Waw's current state can't handle. But the idea that any user can just slap it on their map without thinking "Why am I hitting this limit" is stupid. 99% of the maps that currently use T4M don't need it and are just too lazy to fix their problems. If Leviathan didn't need it, why would you? I'm just sick of new mappers using it as a scapegoat to get over the 400fx limit, but hey that's just my opinion

If Leviathan didn't need it, why would you? I'm just sick of new mappers using it as a scapegoat to get over the 400fx limit, but hey that's just my opinion

Maybe Leviathan isn't as detailed as you think it is
Also, mappers may not need it, but I think it's a good precautionary work. It doesn't harm anything to have it in so why not? People still shouldn't get lazy with their materials, but a safety barrier is always helpful.

Wah wah wah. People lose touch with this "hobbie". Maps, even great maps, come and go in a few weeks, after we spend months making them by ourselves for free for fun. Enjoy the map, dl the t4m if you want, or don't. Who gives a shit. Wish people would just leave the negativity at home. I know several people who hesitate making anything and releasing cause of this hate all the time. Luckily I don't care, but some do. I mean don't stop bashing nubs right, that's like anything in life, you always bash nubs, lol.

I mean don't stop bashing nubs right, that's like anything in life, you always bash nubs, lol.

Sage advice as always.

Maps, even great maps, come and go in a few weeks, after we spend months making them by ourselves for free for fun.

Sadly some people think of mapping as a chore but do it anyways, it literally makes no sense.

I can't believe there are people here unwilling to just install T4M and forget about it. WTF? If I can install it on my machine and continue working on all the random WaW shit I do on a daily basis without any issues then anyone here can. There is literally nothing wrong with it.

There is no difference between having to download and install a custom map and having to download and install T4M. And fuck, you only have to do it once! UGX Launcher will likely be checking for if you've installed T4M and telling you to install it if you don't already have it, so you better just get used to it.

But the idea that any user can just slap it on their map without thinking "Why am I hitting this limit" is stupid. 99% of the maps that currently use T4M don't need it and are just too lazy to fix their problems. If Leviathan didn't need it, why would you? I'm just sick of new mappers using it as a scapegoat to get over the 400fx limit, but hey that's just my opinion

This seems to be the only running argument here. Nothing I'm about to say is personally aimed at you JBird, I'm just using your reply because it was the first one I found scrolling down the quick view that had what I wanted to respond to in it...

Anyone who is using this argument about new mappers being able to avoid limits with a simple tool is just bitter that life is easier now than it used to be for new mappers. It's the same damn thing that happens when you're 21 years old and bitter that today's 10 year old kids all have iPhones. Or don't know what a CD is. Or a Cassette/VHS tape. Or what it was like to have to go buy music from a store the day it came out instead of being able to stream it all. Society advances and things get easier, you just have to accept that you're a product of a previous generation. Consider yourself a more experienced individual for being able to survive life before T4M.

If a map exceeds reasonable filesize it's pretty obvious right off the bat to the first few people who download it.  A minecraft map that's 500mb? Oh look he included every raw asset folder in his IWD... Maps like these will be rejected from being put on the Launcher, problem solved.

If you want to solve this problem, the solution is teaching the new mappers how to manage asset use. Don't blame T4M for fixing the asset limits, blame the mappers for abusing them.