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Everything Else => General Discussion => Topic started by: steviewonder87 on January 07, 2016, 08:36:28 pm

Title: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: steviewonder87 on January 07, 2016, 08:36:28 pm
What is people's problem with T4M? Whenever a map gets released with it, it gets swamped with comments from people bitching about the fact it requires a 3mb file (and if you own it on disc then a 5mb lan fix file). What is the logic here?

Before, people loved to bitch about WAW limits and how they suck and ruin maps and restrict us and are needless, etc. etc. Now, there's an amazing mod that basically doubles the limits, and people still find a way to bitch about that!? Lmao. Never ceases to amaze how this 'community' finds new and creative ways to bitch about stuff for the sake of it.

I've had absolutely ZERO issues at all with T4M, it does what it's supposed to and I haven't even noticed the fact I have it other than my map actually loads despite having more stuff than it 'should'. I guess that's what people want? They prefer to have a map with less stuff in it than one with more that goes over the limits?

I can understand totally the logic that almost all the maps so far with it haven't 'needed' it at all, and that better asset management would easily bring it down to under WAW limits. Of course, this is laziness and often ignorance on the mapper's part, but tbh there is no reason why everyone who plays (and especially maps) CZ shouldn't have T4M installed already anyway (other than being stubborn).

But for my map for example, I was already at the memory limit, and most of the others were on the brink, and I spent months sorting out the mod and fighting against the limits and what I could and couldn't include. You can take my word for it that WAW cannot fit much/any more than the original Oil Rig, and that almost every single asset loaded is done so because it is required.

Since I installed T4M I've added a few new areas, new sounds, new quotes, new guns, new fx, and loads more shit, and I don't even have to hold my breath every time I load the map fearing that dreaded 'crash to desktop' sound you get.

A lot of the extra stuff I added now isn't 'required' of course, I'm sure the original Oil Rig has more than enough in it for most people, but if I can, why not? It has no negative affect on my game and just makes my life a hell of a lot easier. Tbh, I could probably get away with the all the limits without T4M other than the memory limit, and with the BO3 guns, the image/mtl limit. And, for reference, this is a typical BO3 gun's images -

(https://i.gyazo.com/9bf0111fbdad427fa5245cdf91238595.png)

That's one gun without any attachments. Try fit 7-8 of those on top of an already fully packed map and not hit any limits. I don't care how good you are at managing assets. Having said that, since most maps aren't using BO3 models and such, there is obviously no need for T4M for the majority of mappers right now. But to have people making idiotic statements like 'I don't play T4M maps' is just ridiculous; why would people not want to have maps that exceed what was previously capable in WAW? BO3 mod tools will be out soon and WAW will soon be obsolete, why not have it go out on a high and have maps that actually even push the T4M limits, let alone the WAW ones?

TL:DR - Why the fuck are people bitching about T4M?
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: 90Dboy on January 07, 2016, 09:19:16 pm
Sorry, I'm out of the loop. Are there any downsides to T4M? I can't really imagine why anyone would dislike something this good.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: MakeCents on January 07, 2016, 09:24:04 pm
Initially I feared installing the T4M, cause I didn't read, now I install and remove it back and forth checking things on a weekly bases.

One, I don't think people realize it is as simple as copying a file into your root folder and then removing it, I didn't.
Two, I have friends that can't download it, let alone know where their "root" folder is.

Besides that, and the one time I had a wall of flame texture across my screen using it, I haven't had any issues with it, and leave it installed most of the time, and don't even realize it is required until one of my friends can't play a map... It would be great if they would add something, not much different than how they add the load screen bik file, for the T4M, to the UGX installer. Then it would be up to the modder to get the latest version of the T4M and have it installed when installing their map...?

BO3 mod tools will be out soon and WAW will soon be obsolete

Meh, Idk about that one... I'll prob stick around waw stuff unless the community dies off. My pc doesn't much like BO3 anyway.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Exofile on January 07, 2016, 09:40:20 pm
So wait. How many people are bitching about T4M? I see alot of people not agreeing with the increased use of it, which on a map that doesn't need it, it's a lazy way to prevent hitting limits.

So maybe the new mappers don't know how to manage assets properly. They use T4M. What? By not using t4m, and therefore managing your assets more properly, you learn more along the way. There is no downside to it directly, besides a bit more work, which shouldn't be an issue. Modding isn't a walk in the park, so you can't skip things all the time. Sometimes things take time.

I like T4M. I never said I didn't like T4M directly. What I don't like is when a mapper stamps it on because they won't try to figure out how to manage their assets, or can't be arsed to do it. I don't like laziness ( Though I can be lazy myself sometimes, I try my best not to be lazy when it comes to modding CoD:WaW), and in the case of modding, especially not.

It's a good thing to manage your assets, to have control and learn about the limits instead of just pushing them back because you won't/can't manage them.

Now, in cases like Leviathan. Project C and so forth, you see these extraordinary maps that don't need T4M? So if they can do it, I can easily see a lesser big map being able to do it as well. But when I see a map, such as Oil Rig, it's different. I see how much is in this mod. I see how big it is, and I can understand that he is hitting alot of limits. I don't mind him using T4M the slightest bit, go ahead. But please, if you don't need it, don't use it just because you won't manage your assets properly.

Don't mind installing T4M, don't mind T4M itself, but I do mind it when people use it as an easy way out. If your map doesn't need it, don't use it. That's my view on it.

If you live 200 meters from a restaurant, you don't need to drive there. You can walk. You exercise, and it's better for you. The car is an easy way out that isn't needed.  ;)
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: steviewonder87 on January 07, 2016, 09:43:43 pm
Initially I feared installing the T4M, cause I didn't read, now I install and remove it back and forth checking things on a weekly bases.

One, I don't think people realize it is as simple as copying a file into your root folder and then removing it, I didn't.
Two, I have friends that can't download it, let alone know where their "root" folder is.

Besides that, and the one time I had a wall of flame texture across my screen using it, I haven't had any issues with it, and leave it installed most of the time, and don't even realize it is required until one of my friends can't play a map... It would be great if they would add something, not much different than how they add the load screen bik file, for the T4M, to the UGX installer. Then it would be up to the modder to get the latest version of the T4M and have it installed when installing their map...?

Meh, Idk about that one... I'll prob stick around waw stuff unless the community dies off. My pc doesn't much like BO3 anyway.

Well the community wouldn't 'die off', it would just move to BO3 of course lol. I can't see people still playing WAW when people will be making crazy BO3 custom maps, maybe a few cheapskates (who ironically will be the ones begging people to add the latest BO3 stuff into WAW ::) ) And most PCs don't get along that great with BO3 tbh, but hopefully by the time the tools come out it will be patched to perfection...

One, I don't think people realize it is as simple as copying a file into your root folder and then removing it, I didn't.

And this is true I think, it's even a commonly held (and irritating) misconception that T4M 'doesn't work' with the disc version of WAW which is just complete bullshit. I have the 'disc' (no-CD) version of WAW and I installed T4M in about 4 seconds (I had the lan fix already laying around in my downloads to make things even easier).
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: steviewonder87 on January 07, 2016, 09:49:11 pm
So wait. How many people are bitching about T4M? I see alot of people not agreeing with the increased use of it, which on a map that doesn't need it, it's a lazy way to prevent hitting limits.

So maybe the new mappers don't know how to manage assets properly. They use T4M. What? By not using t4m, and therefore managing your assets more properly, you learn more along the way. There is no downside to it directly, besides a bit more work, which shouldn't be an issue. Modding isn't a walk in the park, so you can't skip things all the time. Sometimes things take time.

I like T4M. I never said I didn't like T4M directly. What I don't like is when a mapper stamps it on because they won't try to figure out how to manage their assets, or can't be arsed to do it. I don't like laziness ( Though I can be lazy myself sometimes, I try my best not to be lazy when it comes to modding CoD:WaW), and in the case of modding, especially not.

It's a good thing to manage your assets, to have control and learn about the limits instead of just pushing them back because you won't/can't manage them.

Now, in cases like Leviathan. Project C and so forth, you see these extraordinary maps that don't need T4M? So if they can do it, I can easily see a lesser big map being able to do it as well. But when I see a map, such as Oil Rig, it's different. I see how much is in this mod. I see how big it is, and I can understand that he is hitting alot of limits. I don't mind him using T4M the slightest bit, go ahead. But please, if you don't need it, don't use it just because you won't manage your assets properly.

Don't mind installing T4M, don't mind T4M itself, but I do mind it when people use it as an easy way out. If your map doesn't need it, don't use it. That's my view on it.

If you live 200 meters from a restaurant, you don't need to drive there. You can walk. You exercise, and it's better for you. The car is an easy way out that isn't needed.  ;)

Yes, but you (and others) outright said 'I don't play T4M maps'. :poker:

The criticism should be directed at the mapper, not the mod, and it should be judged on an individual basis.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: arceus on January 07, 2016, 09:50:07 pm
no but ou can manage your other assets, perks itselff can't destroy the fx limit, aswell as the models, materials, and images those aren't enough to destroy the limits unless you have a ton of unneeded f's, models and materials, so yes it is your fault.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: RadimaX on January 07, 2016, 09:51:34 pm
outright 'I don't play T4M maps'
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Exofile on January 07, 2016, 09:57:01 pm
Exofile alot of your argument is invalid because there a middle of the line mappers like myself. I know how to do way more than most intro mappers which is evident in my last release. I am working with what I have and that's Harrybo21 perks which is enough to destroy the fx limit. Those perks are perfect but come with a price.

If raw assets were available to all this could be fixed. I am working with fast files because thats all I have. What about people like me? I can't manage a god damn fast file

Invalid? There are tons of "middle of the line" mappers. I would maybe consider myself one of them. And noone is telling you that you HAVE to use Harry's perks? Alot of people make their own perks, just requires some basic scripting knowledge, which I am pretty sure you can learn here. You choose to use a fastfile because you don't do it yourself, or don't have the raw assets. That is your own choice, and if you really wanted to put effort into it, I'm sure you'd learn alot of stuff by scripting and porting things yourself.  :)

Yes, but you (and others) outright said 'I don't play T4M maps'. :poker:

The criticism should be directed at the mapper, not the mod, and it should be judged on an individual basis.

I said that, poorly worded as I often am, as a way to tell the mapper, that I wouldn't play the map because I don't support the use of T4M on it :please:

I have nothing against T4M. I have something against the way some people use it. I'll play your Oil Rig, because I KNOW that you hit the limit. My decision to play a T4M map varies from map to map, and in most cases, it's used in a way I don't think is needed. So by saying I won't play the map, I'm telling the mapper; "Hey, your map shouldn't have T4M". I try to make sure to explain that, although I am often a moron, I won't lie. :)

When I said "I don't play maps using T4M", it was pointed at Nate's map. I worded it poorly, I know.  :D

other assets arent using fx

There are quite a few fx's that are loaded, that you don't need.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: arceus on January 07, 2016, 09:57:29 pm
other assets arent using fx
abviously theres a lot of unneeded assets loaded in the cvs cause there are very few x used for the perks
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: RadimaX on January 07, 2016, 10:09:59 pm
How to do a successful map step one:
Just add over 400+ fx (Obviously) its not like you get warned or anything, then paste in t4m files to root, then make people download cracked lanfix from some site,  now you have 2 shortcuts one to cracked game and one to legit game you paid for that ironicly wont even run the codwaw custom zombie map you try to play.

clearly all thats is way better then traditional:
install&play

by the way not hate on T4M or mapper using it only personal opinion
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Soy-Yo on January 07, 2016, 10:20:01 pm
I don't see the point of having to manage the assets to be below WaW limits if we have T4M.
If this had been an official update of the game there wouldn't have been any problems. There wouldn't be people saying you have to manage your assets to be in the original WaW (shitty) limits. So you can think it's just an update that improves the game. You install it once and forget about it the rest of the time.

Alot of people make their own perks, just requires some basic scripting knowledge
For this I just want to say it's not just basic knowledge what you need. I think I have a good (or medium :P) scripting knowledge and I don't think I'll be capable to script the perks (probably jugg  :please:).
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: BluntStuffy on January 07, 2016, 10:35:48 pm
How to do a successful map step one:
Just add over 400+ fx (Obviously) its not like you get warned or anything, then paste in t4m files to root, then make people download cracked lanfix from some site,  now you have 2 shortcuts one to cracked game and one to legit game you paid for that ironicly wont even run the codwaw custom zombie map you try to play.

clearly all thats is way better then traditional:
install&play

by the way not hate on T4M or mapper using it only personal opinion

yeh, it's outrageous to use a MOD to play a MOD, ikr   :troll:
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Exofile on January 07, 2016, 10:39:24 pm
I don't see the point of having to manage the assets to be below WaW limits if we have T4M.
If this had been an official update of the game there wouldn't have been any problems. There wouldn't be people saying you have to manage your assets to be in the original WaW (shitty) limits. So you can think it's just an update that improves the game. You install it once and forget about it the rest of the time.
For this I just want to say it's not just basic knowledge what you need. I think I have a good (or medium :P) scripting knowledge and I don't think I'll be capable to script the perks (probably jugg  :please:).

Alot of people see it your way.  :D

I feel that if you have the potential to make it not require t4m, don't make it require t4m. An update on waw is mandatory most of the time to continue playing the game, based on the game that is, but the point isn't that I want people to stay below the limits. I want them to learn how to properly manage it. It's an unecessary step added into the installation of a mod, and no, not everyone has T4M by now. New people still come in every day, and alot of people seem to not speak english as well, seem to not be understandable of tutorials well and so forth.'

Make it as easy of an installation for the user as you can, please. You should be making the mod for the players that will play it, not just because you're making it. Think of how they want it. That's just my view on it.  8)
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Scobalula on January 07, 2016, 10:44:37 pm
I don't see the point of having to manage the assets to be below WaW limits if we have T4M.
If this had been an official update of the game there wouldn't have been any problems. There wouldn't be people saying you have to manage your assets to be in the original WaW (shitty) limits. So you can think it's just an update that improves the game. You install it once and forget about it the rest of the time.

So you don't see the point in optimization? kden.

My big problem lies with mappers releasing these large file size maps that are as unoptimized as hell (I can recall maps that ran worse than Leviathan on my old PC but..you get it...) yet you get into the map, and you start wondering why other maps of MUCH larger scale got by without T4M but this didn't..and some of these maps don't even have that much in it, some just don't know how to remove FX, maybe remove bloody WAW guns, comment some sounds, etc., this lack of knowledge is acceptable but there are tutorials for this stuff, and there are other ways to get around it without a bloody DLL file.

Yes I understand this raises the bar for what we can do, yes I understand it takes 5 minutes less to install and yes I understand we've been asking for ages for this but I'm not downloading your 600MB box map which is hitting all limits because you forgot to remove some fx, sounds, etc.

Obviously in Stevie's example there is fuck all you can do, BO3 guns are large in size, same with guns from AW, etc. and if you came out with an update for Oil Rig that requires T4M I would gladly use it and play the game with it.

Same goes if FS Nuketown came out tomorrow and required T4M, I would have no issue, but if Box Plus v2 came out and it required it I would tell the maker to piss off.

Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: HitmanVere on January 07, 2016, 10:54:19 pm
Only thing I dont like with T4M is consolespam. Normally you could ignore consolespam, but with T4M and external console, all the consolespam can be seen and drops FPS a lot and makes some maps unplayable on co-op. I think, if you hide external console, this wont be problem, but I want to keep external always showing for some reason. Nothing more to this, carry on :P
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: steviewonder87 on January 07, 2016, 11:16:06 pm
If this had been an official update of the game there wouldn't have been any problems. There wouldn't be people saying you have to manage your assets to be in the original WaW (shitty) limits. So you can think it's just an update that improves the game. You install it once and forget about it the rest of the time.

+1 exactly right.

So you don't see the point in optimization? kden.

My big problem lies with mappers releasing these large file size maps that are as unoptimized as hell (I can recall maps that ran worse than Leviathan on my old PC but..you get it...) yet you get into the map, and you start wondering why other maps of MUCH larger scale got by without T4M but this didn't..and some of these maps don't even have that much in it, some just don't know how to remove FX, maybe remove bloody WAW guns, comment some sounds, etc., this lack of knowledge is acceptable but there are tutorials for this stuff, and there are other ways to get around it without a bloody DLL file.

Yes I understand this raises the bar for what we can do, yes I understand it takes 5 minutes less to install and yes I understand we've been asking for ages for this but I'm not downloading your 600MB box map which is hitting all limits because you forgot to remove some fx, sounds, etc.

Obviously in Stevie's example there is fuck all you can do, BO3 guns are large in size, same with guns from AW, etc. and if you came out with an update for Oil Rig that requires T4M I would gladly use it and play the game with it.

Same goes if FS Nuketown came out tomorrow and required T4M, I would have no issue, but if Box Plus v2 came out and it required it I would tell the maker to piss off.



So then the problem is the mapper and not the mod itself. Because it's honestly hard to distinguish what people are actually bitching about. For some people it seems they actually are against a mod that increases limits, others are just angry at what they see as laziness. Either way, the mod itself is brilliant and people need to stop shitting on everything that's good around here - it's beyond me why DUKIP et al even bothered to put in the effort to make such a useful mod when this is the response they get.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: RadimaX on January 07, 2016, 11:26:36 pm
it requires more steps to follow, and people rather play the map then do additional steps i know you try frame it like wow 3 mb is nothing in a 600 mb map but if the map was 3 mb and dukip fix was 600 mb it would still be two seperate things not to mention the lanfix so 3 things instead of installer that does it all for you at once. i would play a map thats 4 gigs if it existed and worked but not if it had T4M fix on it no matter what size it is.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: steviewonder87 on January 07, 2016, 11:29:51 pm
i would play a map thats 4 gigs if it existed and worked but not if it had T4M fix on it no matter what size it is.

That makes 0 sense.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: RadimaX on January 07, 2016, 11:33:48 pm
what makes no sence? that i would do 1 step rather then 3?
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Koan on January 07, 2016, 11:34:33 pm
I think the hate for T4M is a hivemind that comes from people who see hateful comments on shit maps that require it.

For example:
> boxmap gets posted that requires T4M
> other users rightfully tell this person to fuck off and manage their assets properly
> users see these comments as general hatred for maps requiring T4M
> users then assume "T4M = bad map"
> users post synonymous comments on any map that has T4M

If Leviathan or Requiem required T4M I wouldn't give a shit. However, the only maps I've seen that require it to be installed haven't been all that great.

what makes no sence? that i would do 1 step rather then 3?

That's almost as lazy, maybe even lazier, than the mappers requiring you to install T4M. :please:
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Scobalula on January 07, 2016, 11:56:07 pm
+1 exactly right.

So then the problem is the mapper and not the mod itself. Because it's honestly hard to distinguish what people are actually bitching about. For some people it seems they actually are against a mod that increases limits, others are just angry at what they see as laziness. Either way, the mod itself is brilliant and people need to stop shitting on everything that's good around here - it's beyond me why DUKIP et al even bothered to put in the effort to make such a useful mod when this is the response they get.

My problem isn't with T4M, I use it all the time, my problem is with mappers that are currently using it instead of commenting a few lines of sounds or fx, etc.

Like I said, if you update Oil Rig and it requires T4M I would have no issue dling it, because your mod IS pushing WaW, it is far from what was expected to be put on WaW and it's what I put as an "amazing" map, but someone who just can't see that sounds not being used are making them hit limits is a map I would not even consider.

I do agree the hate should not go towards T4M and should be directed towards mappers who just need to open their .csv's and comment a few lines..
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: RadimaX on January 07, 2016, 11:58:07 pm
people install&Play maps the same way for 7 years, making something this radical and edgy like T4M clearly OP and superior is maybe a bit late to introduce 2016 at the brink of death for codwaw zombies when people comfortably can install&play like they always been doing in the past...
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: MAK911 on January 08, 2016, 12:14:12 am
people install&Play maps the same way for 7 years, making something this radical and edgy like T4M clearly OP and superior is maybe a bit late to introduce 2016 at the brink of death for codwaw zombies when people comfortably can install&play like they always been doing in the past...
WAW has always been at "the brink of death." I can't think of any time where we had a hayday and it was all peachy and nice. So what if we taught the old bastard a new trick? It's a matter of evolving. WAW isn't dead; we've just grown out of its limits. Hell, T4M isn't even for WAW IMO. It's getting us to pace ourselves before BO3 mod tools (if they come out). Sure, we might have had some better maps if it were released years ago, but no one knew how to do it. If there's call for a map to need T4M, then go right ahead. We don't have to be held back by that shit anymore, so why not splurge a little bit before we settle into a new game? No more combining world textures just to get everything cozy. No more worrying about that shitty 400fx limit and you can actually make a map look interesting with nice fx. This is a new way to play and 2 steps extra is well worth the fucking effort.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: JBird632 on January 08, 2016, 12:55:08 am
I understand that T4M is great and its amazing that DUKIP manage to raise the limits. To be honest I believe that if a map truly needs to run T4M then ya, definitely use it because you want to add more awesome to your map that Waw's current state can't handle. But the idea that any user can just slap it on their map without thinking "Why am I hitting this limit" is stupid. 99% of the maps that currently use T4M don't need it and are just too lazy to fix their problems. If Leviathan didn't need it, why would you? I'm just sick of new mappers using it as a scapegoat to get over the 400fx limit, but hey that's just my opinion :P
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: MAK911 on January 08, 2016, 01:08:57 am
If Leviathan didn't need it, why would you? I'm just sick of new mappers using it as a scapegoat to get over the 400fx limit, but hey that's just my opinion :P
Maybe Leviathan isn't as detailed as you think it is :troll:
Also, mappers may not need it, but I think it's a good precautionary work. It doesn't harm anything to have it in so why not? People still shouldn't get lazy with their materials, but a safety barrier is always helpful.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: MakeCents on January 08, 2016, 01:17:54 am
Wah wah wah. People lose touch with this "hobbie". Maps, even great maps, come and go in a few weeks, after we spend months making them by ourselves for free for fun. Enjoy the map, dl the t4m if you want, or don't. Who gives a shit. Wish people would just leave the negativity at home. I know several people who hesitate making anything and releasing cause of this hate all the time. Luckily I don't care, but some do. I mean don't stop bashing nubs right, that's like anything in life, you always bash nubs, lol.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: steviewonder87 on January 08, 2016, 01:29:17 am
I mean don't stop bashing nubs right, that's like anything in life, you always bash nubs, lol.

Sage advice as always. ;D
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: mrpeanut188 on January 08, 2016, 03:08:47 am
Maps, even great maps, come and go in a few weeks, after we spend months making them by ourselves for free for fun.
Sadly some people think of mapping as a chore but do it anyways, it literally makes no sense.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: treminaor on January 08, 2016, 03:17:03 am
I can't believe there are people here unwilling to just install T4M and forget about it. WTF? If I can install it on my machine and continue working on all the random WaW shit I do on a daily basis without any issues then anyone here can. There is literally nothing wrong with it.

There is no difference between having to download and install a custom map and having to download and install T4M. And fuck, you only have to do it once! UGX Launcher will likely be checking for if you've installed T4M and telling you to install it if you don't already have it, so you better just get used to it.

But the idea that any user can just slap it on their map without thinking "Why am I hitting this limit" is stupid. 99% of the maps that currently use T4M don't need it and are just too lazy to fix their problems. If Leviathan didn't need it, why would you? I'm just sick of new mappers using it as a scapegoat to get over the 400fx limit, but hey that's just my opinion :P
This seems to be the only running argument here. Nothing I'm about to say is personally aimed at you JBird, I'm just using your reply because it was the first one I found scrolling down the quick view that had what I wanted to respond to in it...

Anyone who is using this argument about new mappers being able to avoid limits with a simple tool is just bitter that life is easier now than it used to be for new mappers. It's the same damn thing that happens when you're 21 years old and bitter that today's 10 year old kids all have iPhones. Or don't know what a CD is. Or a Cassette/VHS tape. Or what it was like to have to go buy music from a store the day it came out instead of being able to stream it all. Society advances and things get easier, you just have to accept that you're a product of a previous generation. Consider yourself a more experienced individual for being able to survive life before T4M.

If a map exceeds reasonable filesize it's pretty obvious right off the bat to the first few people who download it.  A minecraft map that's 500mb? Oh look he included every raw asset folder in his IWD... Maps like these will be rejected from being put on the Launcher, problem solved.

If you want to solve this problem, the solution is teaching the new mappers how to manage asset use. Don't blame T4M for fixing the asset limits, blame the mappers for abusing them.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: JBird632 on January 08, 2016, 03:32:28 am
This seems to be the only running argument here. Nothing I'm about to say is personally aimed at you JBird, I'm just using your reply because it was the first one I found scrolling down the quick view that had what I wanted to respond to in it...
I get what your saying, we do seem to like to flame anything and everything (it is the internet haha), but my response to this post was nothing to do with preventing people from using t4m, more just pointing out the fact that its like using a flamethrower to kill an ant - effective? of course, but its just not the right way in my opinion lol.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Soy-Yo on January 08, 2016, 07:02:39 pm
As there's a "[Guide] How to Play Custom Maps" we could add another step to download T4M and, for the ones who have the disc version, Lanfix and make them use it instead of the "original". So they won't even know they have it and won't have any issue playing the map. :D
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: DeletedUser on January 08, 2016, 07:24:26 pm
Going to make this comment without reading the 5 pages of replies (sorry) but here it goes.
I own the CD version of WaW. I use a Lan Fix exe and I've been using T4M just fine since it was released (never ever disabled it, it's so useful). It's literally a god-send for me.
Also, Pwn tried to make it compatible with the CD version, but due to exe's weird encryption T4M can't load properly into it. Blame the CD protection, not the author of the DLL.
In my opinion, the best way to fix the controversy would be putting up the LanFix exe on the T4M topic, but we'd have to make a special exception to the no-piracy rule.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Koan on January 08, 2016, 07:30:14 pm
Oh my god why is this still a thing. I went to work this morning thinking "that T4M thing was funny. hope they've calmed down now" and I come home to find it's still an issue... here I was thinking the customers at work were retarded for not being able to see the 10-feet wide IMAX sign.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: DeletedUser on January 08, 2016, 07:35:07 pm
Read through some replies.
What if the map that required T4M was like the most detailed and most feature-rich map ever made? That had Crysis like graphics. Would you still be bitching about it using T4M?
There's one reason why FS Mod without T4M is a no-go
Spoiler: click to open...
Jammy can't stop using multiple materials
Besides, T4M now loads a fastfile called mod_ex.ff over mod.ff, so you can put a warning message in mod.ff saying that the map was not intended to be run without T4M. That way, users will know T4M wasn't installed correctly before they even go into the map.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: DidUknowiPwn on January 08, 2016, 07:53:26 pm
 :poker:

Mrw seeing this thread for the first time.


Anyway issues for Radi the CD key of WAW has 2 layers of protection. One is from when the compiler doing shit in the exe and the second one is it ignores dll's that are added by injection.

(T4M loads by hooking into the game from directx.)

Radi the fix to your issue is use T4M with a LAN Fixed exe that you can obtain from a number of sources. Still not back from Russia so can't post it directly.

Maybe I'll go ahead and make a 7-zip installer of it in the future too.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: tomikaze on January 08, 2016, 08:07:01 pm
Not to derail perfectly sane thread, but are we just going to sit back and pretend that Bryan isn't getting a blowjob from some chick...or dude (not judging here).

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3qlef4a.png%3F1&hash=d629172998c67854300308c9ed38db9a385d60eb)
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: HitmanVere on January 08, 2016, 08:08:21 pm
Not to derail perfectly sane thread, but are we just going to sit back and pretend that Bryan isn't getting a blowjob from some chick...or dude (not judging here).

(http://i.imgur.com/3qlef4a.png?1)

Im dying :lol:
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: steviewonder87 on January 08, 2016, 08:13:21 pm
Not to derail perfectly sane thread, but are we just going to sit back and pretend that Bryan isn't getting a blowjob from some chick...or dude (not judging here).

(http://i.imgur.com/3qlef4a.png?1)

It could easily be a guy now you mention it...
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Koan on January 08, 2016, 08:14:31 pm
List of maps that require T4M:

Lavender Town - http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9018.0.html (http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9018.0.html)
Ode to BlackJackJonny -
http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9716.0.html (http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9716.0.html)
PAX v2 (and v1) -
http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9530.0.html (http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9530.0.html)
Xmas Cobos -
http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9691.0.html (http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9691.0.html)
Christmas -
http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9564.0.html (http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,9564.0.html)
Potentally Nuketown Remastered when released according to some FS members
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: MrSlagovich on January 08, 2016, 08:18:50 pm
Not to derail perfectly sane thread, but are we just going to sit back and pretend that Bryan isn't getting a blowjob from some chick...or dude (not judging here).

(http://i.imgur.com/3qlef4a.png?1)
Yeah that was my boyfriend Jonny he's super good at giving head
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 08:52:11 pm
I read this and I read the previous content

honestly my head just hurts now...

Just to be clear, I in no way think the install for T4M is difficult, nor that we should make excuses for modders who are "incapable" of following a 3 step tutorial. Lots on "not call of duty 5" mods "require" these kind of things in the first place...

So those making that argument, its just silly. There is always someone too dumb to do something. I would know, i work with a lot of em

and saying people dont read the OP? Thats their problem. Unless you intend on limiting "modding" as a whole because some people are too lazy to read the top few lines of a OP

Im only against the fact lazy ass mappers are not managing their assets when they could be. And this bothers me because

"They leave the WAW guns in so can - still - barely fit anymore content in than we could WITHOUT T4M"

lol


I would also like to remind all, that "I" was the one advising on Lavender town that this infact DOES work with the CD version, and yet i got told to STFU via steam and leave the topic alone. So Its infact, half of the people "using" T4M that are the stupid people convincing others its no good. Just sayin...
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: AoKMiKeY on January 08, 2016, 09:15:35 pm
I am going to start this by saying I am going to only write a small message but I know its going to end up being a page long. I, like Stevie, have been hearing and seeing a lot of this 'T4M is just not need', 'I don't play T4M maps' and other such useless statements that I tend to just ignore.


At the end of the day there is a lot of complexities to the whole idea of patching a game. Sure someone like me or the maker of T4M could rip into the source of the game and build it up and build it to be better and then ship it out but unfortunately that is highly against the EULA of the mod tools and everything else that has been release about the games inner workings that also follow and are sectioned under the EULA. Legally we can not give out a .dll and we really can not give out a .exe. As everyone knows, 3arch do not care about the modders, their communities or their players. They care about money and honestly that is the most worrying thing about the whole idea of sending out a beefed up version of the game. For one they could use the EULA and other agreements you agree to when you start up the game against the modder and try to take legal action. Of course this has never been outted to have happened but we have seen people being emailed from 3arks legal team telling them to take it down or more will happen.


So because of all that, its hard for us as a modding community to improve upon the platform that we mod. T4M is an excellent idea and at its current stage I am still seeing that amazing idea but unfortunately its not open sourced ( anymore ) and its trying to abide by those issues I have listed above. The game is so old and the BO3 modding tools has officially added the last nail to the coffin of CoD5 modding. We need to say Fuck you to 3ark and improve our platform but none of that will ever happen if people are against using a drag and drop file that patches the game to be able to run more.


Yes, I know. People are using it to be lazy but who the fuck cares. If people are being lazy with their maps then leave them to be lazy and they will see that laziness in the feedback they get on the map. At this point the maker of T4M should make an auto updater and pushed T4M to github so we, the community, can help build upon this idea and to get all of those features and limits we face at this point fixed or at least improved. Then everyone should make their map require T4M because once someone has had to play a map that requires it then they will have it. I strongly recommend getting it because it is something that helps map makers give the map players more content to play with. If we stay in the dark ages and our shitty asset limits and our engine limits then we will always be complaining about how the map is always crashing and how its not got enough X or its lacking in Y. We should all shut up and use the thing that makes the game better and for mappers makes the game easier to mod and map for. Why force back the release times of maps because of limits. There is no point. Its a waste of the mappers time to support something that can be easily fixed and its a waste of the communities time skipping through all the useless comments of the people that just need to learn to accept that there is something they will need to spend 3 minutes downloading and dropping into the correct folder to then never need to do it again.


The maker of T4M should create a simple website explaining what the tool does and how to drag and drop a file into the dir of cod and then also just make a simple download button to get the latest version of it. This way mappers can simple add a link to the website to make the process of getting the tool easier.


There are people that I have spoken to that do make maps and look down on the people that make maps that can not need to use T4M compared to their map for instance. Normally this would be a small map that requires T4M compared to a large map that does not require it. They will normally ague that if they had made there maps correctly they would not need it but to them I argue that there is no one way to make a map or the maps assets or how to make a well structured layout for zombie pathing etc. There is so much that mappers either need to be taught or need to find out for them selves that I am not surprised that more mappers are needed T4M to get to the release / Beta stage of their map.


I am completely in favour of this. I love the idea. I love the concept. I just wish it was open sourced. to the people that do not like this then they are the reason that the transition to a game with less limitations will be no easier than them getting over petty things like code stealing ( but that is a completely different topic ).

Tl;Dr -> Get lost. read my post or ignore it. What I have said can not be put into one like. but if you really are that lazy. You are the problem.


Ps: I have not read everyones post. I will go back to them though and edit my message if I see it fit. this is more of an open message to anyone against T4M.
There may be spelling / gammer issues but meh. I am sure you can get the gist of what I am saying.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Exofile on January 08, 2016, 09:26:37 pm
Well puy Mikey :) But if we're supposed to let mappers just map, they won't figure out things by themselves if they don't have to, atleast 90% of the time. I have no issue with T4M. It's a fantastic addon to extend limits. I love it and support it every bit. I have an issue with the laziness some people tend to have using it. It's my own choice to not play the map because I found it a lazy decision to raise the bar instead of going beneath it.

It's all opinion based. It's my decision to not play their maps, so they understand that not everyone smiles at your lazy decision of using it. It's their decision to do so, and I do not dislike them, but choose to not play a map because I want them to try properly, and not take the easy way out.

There seems to be alot of people that think one side is ok with T4M, other hates T4M. That's wrong. I am a part of the negative side, but I LOVE T4M. Personally I can't ever see myself using it, but that's of my own reasons, not important here, but I hate the laziness, like I stated. Just don't get this wrong.

If someone chooses to be lazy, that's ok, but I will not play the map, because I want to encourage the mapper to use other methods.

Note that all I've just said applies to such maps that don't need T4M. Maps like Stevie's Oil Rig are hitting the limits as hard as it goes, so I'm ok with that, that's not an act of laziness to use T4M, that's simply a way of extending the limits to add more. There is the difference. Extending limits to add more, versus extending them to not fix your asset management.

I don't want people to make mods with t4m that don't need it, it's my opinion and I hope people respect it as much as I respect everyone else's opinion.  8)
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 09:29:30 pm
lol lets be fair we knew this argument would happen anyway

hell ive had a ton of people screw at me for releasing my FF assets because "the mapper doesnt need to learn for themselves and your spoonfeeding them" - and - "now these assets will be overused"

ofc they would hate this too, it natural ;)

But im still saying people should learn to get what they can "without" T4M "first" until they legit hit limits so they actually have "extra" space and not the "same space" due to poor asset management

Pretty soon we will be seeing T4M mods hitting memory limit after adding 10 guns instead of the usual 1 because no one can be "bothered" ( and yes i mean cant be "bothered" ) to spend 5 minutes looking through csv files
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Exofile on January 08, 2016, 09:33:34 pm
lol lets be fair we knew this argument would happen anyway

hell ive had a ton of people screw at me for releasing my FF assets because "the mapper doesnt need to learn for themselves and your spoonfeeding them" - and - "now these assets will be overused"

ofc they would hate this too, it natural ;)

Difference being the extra file for the player to download, which as apparently everyone on ugx needs to state, it as easy as putting on pants in the morning?

There is a difference between assets ingame, and managing assets, although they are linked.

I'm surprised people "yelled" at you for releasing it though :please:
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: RadimaX on January 08, 2016, 09:35:50 pm
my message got deleted before among all spam and i was only sharing an opinion so people can understand why T4M is good.

it is good for adding 50 cod ghost guns and 50 advanced warfare guns to a map, but that by itself wont make a good map.
players and modders have the option to use it or leave it alone, and if you are into cool guns stevies map will have T4M and loads of things otherwise not possible with standard codwaw but that does not mean everyone want to go trough the additional steps to make it work.

It is a person to person scenario its not like people will we forced to paste t4m in their roots before they can comment on ugx, there will be pros and cons to using it and unless the cons are ironed out you cant get everyone onboard.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 09:37:14 pm
Difference being the extra file for the player to download, which as apparently everyone on ugx needs to state, it as easy as putting on pants in the morning?

There is a difference between assets ingame, and managing assets, although they are linked.


I'm surprised people "yelled" at you for releasing it though :please:

lol no there isnt

the "usual" i see, is people dont use - but do not disinclude - the WaW guns. Every... single... time...

If not that - then they leave all the sounds in weapons.csv - every... single... time...

despite me putting instructions on what to do literally everywhere

assets management is "asset management". Like UGX had to do, to make room ages ago that caused the hold up, if your hitting limits, odds are if you "managed" it better, you wouldnt. Unless its oil rig coz 50 thousand textures for BO3 guns etc lol

and yes, a number of people voiced serious "opposition" to my stuff when I released. I just ignore it now
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 09:38:14 pm
my message got deleted before among all spam and i was only sharing an opinion so people can understand why T4M is good.

it is good for adding 50 cod ghost guns and 50 advanced warfare guns to a map, but that by itself wont make a good map.
players and modders have the option to use it or leave it alone, and if you are into cool guns stevies map will have T4M and loads of things otherwise not possible with standard codwaw but that does not mean everyone want to go trough the additional steps to make it work.

It is a person to person scenario its not like people will we forced to paste t4m in their roots before they can comment on ugx, there will be pros and cons to using it and unless the cons are ironed out you cant get everyone onboard.
except we are not talking "add 100 guns" thats just another "anything i can think of" response from radi

We are saying you cant fit just about ANY BO3 guns into waw as standard, not without detracting from every other area of the mod.

And ifpeople are too dumb to use it - that is their OWN fault, 90% of morons cant even work out how to devmap into a match - should we remove "waw mods" from them period because of this short coming?

and those who "dont want to" - dont have to. What has this community got against the word "optional"? Its not a "god given right" if YOUR not willing to comprimise

Will you read what people are actually saying radi? please, i beg you
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Koan on January 08, 2016, 09:41:08 pm
As everyone knows, 3arch do not care about the modders, their communities or their players. They care about money and honestly that is the most worrying thing about the whole idea of sending out a beefed up version of the game.

I have to disagree with you here. Why would they be planning mod tools if they didn't care, let alone making such an announcement of it? Would you say that to Sparky, a valued member of UGX? And of course they care about money, who doesn't? They're a fucking AAA game studio... that doesn't mean money is their only motive. If we were talking about Activision it might be a different story, but you can't just say Treyarch doesn't care without backing up your statement at all.

However, that's going off topic.

The maker of T4M should create a simple website explaining what the tool does and how to drag and drop a file into the dir of cod and then also just make a simple download button to get the latest version of it. This way mappers can simple add a link to the website to make the process of getting the tool easier.

It's so fucking easy to obtain, making a whole website just for an explanation is completely unnecessary. The stickied forum post explains it perfectly fine. Maybe a better option is something like this?:
Spoiler: click to open...
(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfrhaHry.png&hash=3da5a1bc7a422a56abf8f75e1ede905215cdf46d)

Why dumb it down even more just because some people are so fucking stupid? That shouldn't be necessary.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: RadimaX on January 08, 2016, 09:42:04 pm
its not anything i can think of response i thought over it over an hour and stevie explained why he need T4M on oilrig yesterday read it again if you don't understand what i mean.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 09:42:09 pm
to start with the mod tools are up to "activision" not "treyarch"

and "yes" you are radi. you have literally "no" point, and are just saying this for the sake of saying it. Hence making outrageous comments like "50 ghosts guns and 50 AW guns and 50 BO3 guns"... you "know" that is not what we are even talking about...

and the argument - some people wont want to - is irrelevenet. they dont want to - fine, dont play T4M maps and pretend you never saw em

some dont understand how - there are people who cannot even devmap - so by your logic, we need to take away call of duty 5 mods period because theres "a step" involved in installing a mod that "some" "might" not understand
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Exofile on January 08, 2016, 09:43:34 pm
lol no there isnt

the "usual" i see, is people dont use - but do not disinclude - the WaW guns. Every... single... time...

If not that - then they leave all the sounds in weapons.csv - every... single... time...

despite me putting instructions on what to do literally everywhere

assets management is "asset management". Like UGX had to do, to make room ages ago that caused the hold up, if your hitting limits, odds are if you "managed" it better, you wouldnt. Unless its oil rig coz 50 thousand textures for BO3 guns etc lol

and yes, a number of people voiced serious "opposition" to my stuff when I released. I just ignore it now

There! Optimization! You stamp T4M on your map, it runs now. But maybe you didn't comment out things. :please:
You have all this junk in your map that you don't even use, that is still loaded. Without using T4M, you can remove it, manage the assets in such a way that you have less included into the mod, to optimize it better. It's better for the player.

As an end result it's better to optimize it rather than to raise the bar, is it not?
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Koan on January 08, 2016, 09:45:11 pm
As an end result it's better to optimize it rather than to raise the bar, is it not?

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20130312013034%2Frandom-ness%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ff0%2FWhy_not_both.jpg&hash=cf246cd68644d6081332afd08aaf6d87c81cea4b)
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 09:45:56 pm
There! Optimization! You stamp T4M on your map, it runs now. But maybe you didn't comment out things. :please:
You have all this junk in your map that you don't even use, that is still loaded. Without using T4M, you can remove it, manage the assets in such a way that you have less included into the mod, to optimize it better. It's better for the player.

As an end result it's better to optimize it rather than to raise the bar, is it not?
yes - always

Take pros nacht map, he still loaded the WAW guns in, but was "convinced" at the time he was out of space - i knew he wasnt

slap t4m on - he can fit in another 20 guns maybe - but thats it, coz the WAW guns are still there

take them out and you can have

boxes
more textures
more models
more guns
more scripts
more anything

without managing your assets you get

a few guns

wow



(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130312013034/random-ness/images/f/f0/Why_not_both.jpg)
because we wont "get" both

if T4M is slapped on "before" any effort to make asset room, then they will not make asset room after when they hit the T4M limit either

so instead of having the 300fx they should have to play with, 400 with T4M

instead its still

3 fx - no T4M
103 fx - with T4M

when it should be

303 fx
403 fx -



I guess its just my opinion we should use T4M was what is intended

"to add more asset space so we can have - more - than usual in a mod"

not

"give exactly the same asset space, but remove the need to go make some simple changes to csv files - completely dumping on the reason T4M was made in the first place"
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: RadimaX on January 08, 2016, 09:55:59 pm
and the argument - some people wont want to - is irrelevenet. they dont want to - fine, dont play T4M maps

its not an argument its a fact, if it was not a fact we would not have a topic called: T4M - why all the hate?
if everyone wanted to use it there would be no debate and if you think i have "no" point you must missed it.
i am sorry you was not part of the conversation about the futuristic guns and oilrig yesterday but i am not throwing big numbers out there for no reason read my "no" point reply again or pretend you never saw em
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 10:01:10 pm
its not an argument its a fact, if it was not a fact we would not have a topic called: T4M - why all the hate?
if everyone wanted to use it there would be no debate and if you think i have "no" point you must missed it.
i am sorry you was not part of the conversation about the futuristic guns and oilrig yesterday but i am not throwing big numbers out there for no reason read my "no" point reply again or pretend you never saw em
I said your "reasons" have no "point" radi

your biggest point is "they might not understand" - which is irrlevent as 90% cant work out how to double click the installer. And "not" knowing how to use T4M does not "prevent" them using the "other" maps that you prefer anyway by the sounds of it ???

Its like me saying i wont play your maps coz you make 50,000,000,000,000,000 out of map glitches possible and I no like them so we should ban radi maps

They are "optional", if you dont "chose" to use that "option" then you cant play those maps. Its a very simple concept

This is oil rig "optional" beta all over again... people who dont want just cant leave alone as always...
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 10:25:27 pm
Here is just a logical thought and correct me if I am wrong and this exists:

Why doesn't someone make a guide/tutorial to managing assets and how to use UGX asset manager with the correct files? I feel like most mappers don't have a clue as to where these assets are being called and if they are being called twice. I know I dont have a single clue what I am doing for assets because I couldn't find a detailed way to learn.
i already have, Harybo21s guide to the "instant crash error" ie - memory limit

people just dont bother looking for it, and when they do, just assume its too hard when it really isnt

http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,8558.0.html (http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,8558.0.html)
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Exofile on January 08, 2016, 10:26:21 pm
i already have, Harybo21s guid to the "instant crash error" ie - memory limit

Just about to say that, maybe you need to explain it even more in depth for people? :please:
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 10:27:14 pm
http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,8558.0.html (http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,8558.0.html)

ermm HELLO

I covered EVERYTHING and its like 4 pages long????
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Exofile on January 08, 2016, 10:30:10 pm
http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,8558.0.html (http://ugx-mods.com/forum/index.php/topic,8558.0.html)

ermm HELLO

I covered EVERYTHING and its like 4 pages long????

Haven't we established in this post that you need to directly feed them things? "Open your browser by double clicking it on the desktop" :please:
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: RadimaX on January 08, 2016, 10:30:14 pm
yes and T4M is optional no one have ever said to ban it
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 10:31:36 pm
yes and T4M is optional no one have ever said to ban it
so what "is" your point then?

Your not against it, and you get now that its not "hard", works with "all versions" and once its done once, never needs repeating or removing again, and is nothing but a "improvement" - and that its infact pretty normal for "mods" to use "extenders" like this ( just not before in "COD" )

so yes im absolutely lost on what your point is now yes
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 10:34:59 pm
Chill guys I never found that. It is bookmarked and I will read all 4 pages. The thing that makes me upset is everyone is constantly calling people out for being lazy or stupid. Maybe some of us are just oblivious and if I was lazy my god damn elbows wouldn't hurt from sitting at a computer chair trying to solve these asset issues.

My brain isn't wired like alot of the computer dudes out here
. I take time to learn and struggle to focus on sources when I don't find them reliable or in depth. My computer intuition is not good. Don't call me lazy and stupid even if it is in a round about way because it is upsetting.

NO. I needed direction. The guide was enough.
Yes - hence the guide

yet this guide went to complete waste because people dont "look" for it. It is in "general help - modding - tutorials"

its also worth pointing out that we "found out" how to do this ourselves. this is why we say its lazy, these same people dont bother then just blame a lack of techy knowledge? I had no idea how to do this before, i paid attention to what people around here told me, and experiemented. Same as i did not know how to use maya - now i do. I did not know how to script - now i do. So to us, im sorry but yes it is lazy - when you skip ALL that, and entirely skip over the tutorials too? I mean beyond that the only option is a point and click "do it for you" application or someone - physically - doing it for you. Hows that not lazy???

they just assume "oh 400fx? well thats it im done. There couldnt be a solution anywhere on this website. Oh - t4m. Problem solved" lol


you also point out you cant follow tutorials that "are not reliable and in depth" - well I call BS on that, because this IS indepth, and names every file name, every location, and explains EVERY BIT of the process and what it does, whats happens when you compile map, what happens when you build mod etc. ech..
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Harry Bo21 on January 08, 2016, 10:42:07 pm
Not entirely. The reason I never found the guide was I googled my exact problem. Again it came down to my obliviousness to how to use the forum. This is the only forum I have ever used. Google for the longest time was what I used to solve problems, and then I discovered chat and PM and my mind was blown. Give the upcoming mappers time and we will learn how to use the tools properly. I get upset when people think I am lazy when I am just completely clueless because I never learned or found a way to learn or didnt even know it was something I should've learned
you know its possible - or the other maps hitting the limits wouldnt exist, so the "not looking for how to do it" is what people think is lazy. Not your lack of understanding

We had to find out. Others dont bother, and then also dont bother using the "tutorial" board, or the wiki. Im sorry, but that is "too lazy" to "look" or "learn to use the forum" OR "learn to do it themselves"...

Also a lot of these "mappers that need time" have been here over a year ( which is longer than me ) and are on their like 100th WIP
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: HitmanVere on January 08, 2016, 10:46:34 pm
Since Zombiekilla accidentaly removed my previous comment:

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette4.wikia.nocookie.net%2Frandom-ness%2Fimages%2F3%2F34%2FMichael_Jackson_popcorn.gif%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20120402225423&hash=f23badb9da186539d531f53f7c10b68af4b28bc6)
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: Exofile on January 08, 2016, 10:55:18 pm
Exo I think you are stereotyping all mappers. Seriously its not cool or fair

I am talking in a way that was meant for joking, really. But no, some people really don't understand simple tutorials, so I'm not necessarily talking about you, or anyone else in particular. It's a general thing. I AM a new mapper. I have been active on UGX for less than half a year. In the beginning, I was like most starting mappers. I wanted easy shortcuts to the most. I started hopping into chat, they told me how I can't always get it handed to me on a plate. So I started learning my own. I decided that my first map was never going to be a boxmap, and I am still working on my first map, haven't released a single one yet. So no, I am one of these mappers.
Title: Re: T4M - why all the hate?
Post by: steviewonder87 on January 08, 2016, 10:55:48 pm
I think this thread is veering off course now and what needed to be said has been said already, might as well lock it.