So on Twitch, some guy can force donations to even give you the right to speak, and receives donations constantly as people watch him play some guy's map whose name isn't even mentioned and who spent a year on it. But donations going to towards the mapper and site and suddenly it's just outrageous? Lol.

People keep going on about 'community'. The backstabbing and bitching in this so called 'community' is unreal. Even the main sites in this tiny 'community' don't get along. 99% of the 'community' who download these maps just download and leave instantly. They never comment, they never contribute anything. If there was a 'donation' button I think the only time it would get used was if one of these people accidentally mistook it for the 'download' button.

what about setting paypal in users signatures?

So on Twitch, some guy can force donations to even give you the right to speak, and receives donations constantly as people watch him play some guy's map whose name isn't even mentioned and who spent a year on it. But donations going to towards the mapper and site and suddenly it's just outrageous? Lol.

People keep going on about 'community'. The backstabbing and bitching in this so called 'community' is unreal. Even the main sites in this tiny 'community' don't get along. 99% of the 'community' who download these maps just download and leave instantly. They never comment, they never contribute anything. If there was a 'donation' button I think the only time it would get used was if one of these people accidentally mistook it for the 'download' button.

I never thought I would agree with Stevie but he makes a pretty good point. Without incentive or getting something in return, unfortunately I don't think hardly anyone would donate with this donation button idea. Also how would you determine who gets a donation button and who doesn't?

So on Twitch, some guy can force donations to even give you the right to speak, and receives donations constantly as people watch him play some guy's map whose name isn't even mentioned and who spent a year on it. But donations going to towards the mapper and site and suddenly it's just outrageous? Lol.

You can't compare wrongs though. Just cause one thing is wrong, doesn't make repeating it right...wait...something like that. I do the maps for fun, so I am paid. I think others are paid as well, especially in respect. Like being a part of the car club. You don't get paid by fixing up your car. You do it cause you like cars. Unless you do comps. Then you do. I don't see the difference really, other than some people have found a way to make people pay. Do we want to be a part of that?

I never thought I would agree with Stevie but he makes a pretty good point. Without incentive or getting something in return, unfortunately I don't think hardly anyone would donate with this donation button idea. Also how would you determine who gets a donation button and who doesn't?

Yup there is that point also. Me personally I do it for fun and enjoyment, but who will be chosen to have donatiom buttons under their names? Would it be universal or just limited to members with title. Or just maper titles ???

Can you give me one single instance, in the history of CZ, where someone has donated to a mapper to show appreciation?

Yes, an example would actually be to me from TheRelaxingEnd. Relaxing donated the Black Ops 2 season pass, Black Ops 3, and Rocket League. By definition those count as donations as a donation is (quote from dictionary) "an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution." therefore it does not have to necessarily be a monetary gift.

The problem I have with the whole situation is that people have the idea that modders (rather use the term modders rather than mappers because a) these are all mods in the end for CoD and b) mappers only include a part of the community, while the other half [or less] are people who make mods whether for SP, ZM, or MP) should be compensated for the work they put into maps. The moment you hit that button that says Compile Map or Build Mod, or even just start making a map in Radiant, everything you worked on no longer is yours, it is Activision's. Therefore, none of us "own" or "created" the mods/maps that we released, they are Activision's. Of course out of the respect for the person who put the time to throw it together, we do credit at least the person for what they did, but legally that's as far as it goes. Activision gave us the mod tools with the EULA that clearly states that we can use the mod tools "for your own personal, non-commercial use in order to create the New Game Materials" (New Game Materials being defined as "new maps, missions, game levels, environments and/or other related game materials for personal use in and with Call of Duty: World at War") with the first bullet point under the License Conditions stating that you "agree that, as a condition to your using the Program Utilities, you will not use ... the Program Utilities and/or the New Game Materials created by you for any commercial purposes, including, but not limited to, selling, renting, leasing, licensing, distributing, or otherwise transferring the ownership of the Program Utilities or the New Game Materials, whether on a stand alone basis or packaged in combination with the New Game Materials created by others, through any and all distribution channels, including, without limitation, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution." with the second point reiterating the statement that "If you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge." So why do people all of a sudden think that we should have the right to have some sort of monetary gain out of tools given to us under the clear restriction that says we are not allowed to? It is pretty obvious even by statements made by Stevie that he is more interested in the money gained out of this.


When you "donate" to someone, you do not expect anything in return from that person. You donated as a way of giving thanks to the person for the work they've done. Stating that you must "donate" to have access to what should be a non-commercial item is no longer a "donation", it is a payment, so I'm baffled by the counter arguments of people trying to justify what is in the end selling a mod/map. Of course this may seem contradictory to me being I donated to the site, but my intent for donating was not because of the fact I wanted to play maps from UGX early on (considering I don't even have World at War installed it'd seem pointless). I donated (despite the small amount it was) because I respect the time and work spent on the site. UGX is the only forum I regularly participate in for WaW because it is the only real active forum that doesn't have the same handful of people posting over and over again in each others topics.

Then there is the arguments of YouTubers/Twitch streamers who "generate profits off of mapper's/modder's content". What they make profits off of is the ads displayed on the video, not the actual video itself. If a YouTuber had a video with ads, but all of their viewers had something like AdBlock running, they'd generate no profits at all, and it's because of the viewers they make profits. The money made is not from what they show, it's merely the little 5-30 second ads you skip/watch before you actually see what you are there to see.

I never thought I would agree with Stevie but he makes a pretty good point. Without incentive or getting something in return, unfortunately I don't think hardly anyone would donate with this donation button idea. Also how would you determine who gets a donation button and who doesn't?

you have to make a $1 donation to ugx to get a donation button

you have to make a $1 donation to ugx to get a donation button

So we need to pay to get payed?

I'm just going to throw my opinion out there ( not that it probably matters) but I would have to agree with most people here. A donation button below a mappers name rather than a "pay to access beta" would make it seem less like "I WANT MONEYZZ $$$  " and more like asking for a tiny donation to help the process of mapping. Even then, is the tiny amount of $4 to access the beta version enough to create such a large amount of controversy and anger? If you want to play the map, but don't want to pay for it, then simply wait until the ACTUAL FULL map comes out. Besides, mappers DO map for hundreds of hours, perfecting the map to make it fun for YOU. A donation button below the mappers name would be a great way to show gratitude and to help him make more masterpieces.

As for donating to access the beta version, I say this. The mapper spent HUNDREDS or thousands of hours on their map. If you are so impatient you don't want to wait, then just pay $4. Is accessing their HUNDREDS of hours of work early worth less than $4?   

Overall: I think that a donation button under a mappers name is good, but paying to access the beta is meh. However it is understandable why it would be like that.

Also, TWITCH STREAMERS have NOTHING to do with this. This is between mappers, and people who want to access their work early. Not same random person who makes money off their map. No one cares about him 

Not to be a grammar nazi, but the title is misspelled.  (Oil Rig Controversy)

I still love you all, though 

You can't compare wrongs though. Just cause one thing is wrong, doesn't make repeating it right...wait...something like that. I do the maps for fun, so I am paid. I think others are paid as well, especially in respect. Like being a part of the car club. You don't get paid by fixing up your car. You do it cause you like cars. Unless you do comps. Then you do. I don't see the difference really, other than some people have found a way to make people pay. Do we want to be a part of that?

Well as it stands the only people getting anything are streamers/YT, personally I don't think that's right, and I'm surprised a lot other mappers are happy with this system. I think this is a fair way to ensure the funds go to the correct place, I repeat the funds are going to the mapper and the site. Why all the outcry now anyway? Comosea and Requiem used the exact same system and barely anyone batted an eyelid.

So we need to pay to get payed?

Not a bad idea but that would divide the community in a bad way imo. As the people who donated to get their own donation button would be frowned upon.

Not a bad idea but that would divide the community in a bad way imo. As the people who donated to get their own donation button would be frowned upon.

Why not just have the site mods verify if you're eligible to have a donation button? just sayin'

Well as it stands the only people getting anything are streamers/YT, personally I don't think that's right, and I'm surprised a lot other mappers are happy with this system. I think this is a fair way to ensure the funds go to the correct place, I repeat the funds are going to the mapper and the site. Why all the outcry now anyway? Comosea and Requiem used the exact same system and barely anyone batted an eyelid.

Are you paying Treyarch also for the whole engine and the mod tools? No only for the game. But now you're making money off Treyarch's product. But ah, that's fair right? Don't talk about fair.

Yes, an example would actually be to me from TheRelaxingEnd. Relaxing donated the Black Ops 2 season pass, Black Ops 3, and Rocket League. By definition those count as donations as a donation is (quote from dictionary) "an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution." therefore it does not have to necessarily be a monetary gift.

The problem I have with the whole situation is that people have the idea that modders (rather use the term modders rather than mappers because a) these are all mods in the end for CoD and b) mappers only include a part of the community, while the other half [or less] are people who make mods whether for SP, ZM, or MP) should be compensated for the work they put into maps. The moment you hit that button that says Compile Map or Build Mod, or even just start making a map in Radiant, everything you worked on no longer is yours, it is Activision's. Therefore, none of us "own" or "created" the mods/maps that we released, they are Activision's. Of course out of the respect for the person who put the time to throw it together, we do credit at least the person for what they did, but legally that's as far as it goes. Activision gave us the mod tools with the EULA that clearly states that we can use the mod tools "for your own personal, non-commercial use in order to create the New Game Materials" (New Game Materials being defined as "new maps, missions, game levels, environments and/or other related game materials for personal use in and with Call of Duty: World at War") with the first bullet point under the License Conditions stating that you "agree that, as a condition to your using the Program Utilities, you will not use ... the Program Utilities and/or the New Game Materials created by you for any commercial purposes, including, but not limited to, selling, renting, leasing, licensing, distributing, or otherwise transferring the ownership of the Program Utilities or the New Game Materials, whether on a stand alone basis or packaged in combination with the New Game Materials created by others, through any and all distribution channels, including, without limitation, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution." with the second point reiterating the statement that "If you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge." So why do people all of a sudden think that we should have the right to have some sort of monetary gain out of tools given to us under the clear restriction that says we are not allowed to? It is pretty obvious even by statements made by Stevie that he is more interested in the money gained out of this.
(Image removed from quote.)

When you "donate" to someone, you do not expect anything in return from that person. You donated as a way of giving thanks to the person for the work they've done. Stating that you must "donate" to have access to what should be a non-commercial item is no longer a "donation", it is a payment, so I'm baffled by the counter arguments of people trying to justify what is in the end selling a mod/map. Of course this may seem contradictory to me being I donated to the site, but my intent for donating was not because of the fact I wanted to play maps from UGX early on (considering I don't even have World at War installed it'd seem pointless). I donated (despite the small amount it was) because I respect the time and work spent on the site. UGX is the only forum I regularly participate in for WaW because it is the only real active forum that doesn't have the same handful of people posting over and over again in each others topics.

Then there is the arguments of YouTubers/Twitch streamers who "generate profits off of mapper's/modder's content". What they make profits off of is the ads displayed on the video, not the actual video itself. If a YouTuber had a video with ads, but all of their viewers had something like AdBlock running, they'd generate no profits at all, and it's because of the viewers they make profits. The money made is not from what they show, it's merely the little 5-30 second ads you skip/watch before you actually see what you are there to see.

After taking what was said here into consideration I am more leaning towards the "No to Payed Beta" mindset.

I'm just going to throw my opinion out there ( not that it probably matters) but I would have to agree with most people here. A donation button below a mappers name rather than a "pay to access beta" would make it seem less like "I WANT MONEYZZ $$$  " and more like asking for a tiny donation to help the process of mapping. Even then, is the tiny amount of $4 to access the beta version enough to create such a large amount of controversy and anger? If you want to play the map, but don't want to pay for it, then simply wait until the ACTUAL FULL map comes out. Besides, mappers DO map for hundreds of hours, perfecting the map to make it fun for YOU. A donation button below the mappers name would be a great way to show gratitude and to help him make more masterpieces.

As for donating to access the beta version, I say this. The mapper spent HUNDREDS or thousands of hours on their map. If you are so impatient you don't want to wait, then just pay $4. Is accessing their HUNDREDS of hours of work early worth less than $4?   

Also, TWITCH STREAMERS have NOTHING to do with this. This is between mappers, and people who want to access their work early. Not same random person who makes money off their map. No one cares about him 

Not to be a grammar nazi, but the title is misspelled.  (Oil Rig Controversy)

I still love you all, though 

I just want to back this, a button below the mappers name to donate would IMO, be a good idea since, unlike the paying for beta access, it dosen't restrict people from anything. Its simply something to help the mapper keep working and stay motivated on top of doing it for the community. But that's just my opinion