UGX-Mods

UGX-Mods => Announcements => Topic started by: treminaor on September 02, 2015, 04:27:09 pm

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 02, 2015, 04:27:09 pm
we have no idea what the future holds for paid betas like this, this is mainly a trial to see what happens. we think its a great way for mappers to get paid for their work but its also a lot of work to set up and clearly there are mixed feelings in the community on the subject.



well i just woke up to the aftermath of whatever mess was here this morning. clearly a lot of people are not happy about the prospect of mappers being able to make money back through paid betas, even if the public release will be free. i'm very surprised by the response of some mappers earlier who don't see the potential in this, and I'm also very disappointed in anyone who was low enough to report the website to Activision on Twitter or otherwise - keep your business here with us if you want the community to survive as a whole.

anyway this is not worth upsetting the community over the money we would have received to continue supporting this website. for example we just spent $4,000USD of requiem/site donations (i have a receipt for this) on a one year license for the Qt framework (http://www.qt.io) to use for the upcoming UGX Launcher redesign which will be released before the end of this year. like we've always said in the past we use the money you guys are kind of enough to donate in order to improve your experience and keep the site online. we are also planning on updating our servers again within the next year.

if this is just about stevie and not about UGX supporting the paid donation process then fine, but I just wanted to make it clear where the money is going on our side. please feel free to discuss both in this topic.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 04:38:01 pm
I don't see why one map getting donations helps anything i respect requiem donations as that produces the 1.1 mod for an easier release all things that will create more content for the community, one map does not help a community other than the ability to play another map.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ramiabdh on September 02, 2015, 04:40:32 pm
I say you add a poll too just for analysis. And about the mess, I may not like the idea, but you UGX guys are free to do whatever you wish to do, as you're not obligated to do what people wish for(it's all optional, for the paying I mean). Just keep on moving with whatever your plans/ideas are, and don't take low people as references to base your work on.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 04:41:46 pm
I say you add a poll too just for analysis. And about the mess, I may not like the idea, but you UGX guys are free to do whatever you wish to do, as you're not obligated to do what people wish for(it's all optional). Just keep on moving with whatever your plans/ideas are, and don't take low people as references to base your work on.
i also agree with this comment this should be put to a public vote for the community, if a majority decide "yes we want to pay for beta maps" then so be it but i dont think this should be applied to the website under the admin's choice.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 04:41:52 pm
As it stands, the only people making money from CZ are Youtubers and Twitch streamers. Often the mapper doesn't even get so much as a mention, and sometimes even the map name isn't even included, let alone a link. So while some guy who downloads, plays, then uploads the map for 30 mins rakes in the money, while the mapper who spent over a year working on it has to sit there watching them, twiddling their thumbs getting absolutely jack shit.

Clearly, something is wrong here.

This is the only feasible way for a mapper to get rewarded by the audience. If you don't think the map is worth $4, or if you just disagree with the whole concept, or if you can find something better to spend your $4 on, then by all means keep it. No-one is forcing anyone to do anything, you can just wait for the normal release. For the record I would have HAPPILY donated $4 to play Leviathan, and many were obviously equally happy to donate to play Requiem.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: chromastone10 on September 02, 2015, 04:42:17 pm
I saw your one post about having a donation button under each mapper, and I really like that idea, it lets people that can help out their favorite mapper, would love to see this added
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 04:43:08 pm
I saw your one post about having a donation button under each mapper, and I really like that idea, it lets people that can help out their favorite mapper, would love to see this added
Yes it would be a great idea.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: chromastone10 on September 02, 2015, 04:44:23 pm
As it stands, the only people making money from CZ are Youtubers and Twitch streamers. Often the mapper doesn't even get so much as a mention, and sometimes even the map name isn't even included, let alone a link. So while some guy who downloads, plays, then uploads the map for 30 mins rakes in the money, while the mapper who spent over a year working on it has to sit there watching them, twiddling their thumbs getting absolutely jack shit.

Clearly, something is wrong here.

This is the only feasible way for a mapper to get rewarded by the audience. If you don't think the map is worth $4, or if you just disagree with the whole concept, or if you can find something better to spend your $4 on, then by all means keep it. No-one is forcing anyone to do anything, you can just wait for the normal release. For the record I would have HAPPILY donated $4 to play Leviathan, and many were obviously equally happy to donate to play Requiem.

this is also exactly my argument, but then I fight back with myself saying "Well aren't I doing this to see the enjoyment and reactions of others?" so Im really on the fence with this, I totally agree but disagree at the same time, so I just kinda keep it to myself :P
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 04:44:30 pm
As it stands, the only people making money from CZ are Youtubers and Twitch streamers. Often the mapper doesn't even get so much as a mention, and sometimes even the map name isn't even included, let alone a link. So while some guy who downloads, plays, then uploads the map for 30 mins rakes in the money, while the mapper who spent over a year working on it has to sit there watching them, twiddling their thumbs getting absolutely jack shit.

Clearly, something is wrong here.

This is the only feasible way for a mapper to get rewarded by the audience. If you don't think the map is worth $4, or if you just disagree with the whole concept, or if you can find something better to spend your $4 on, then by all means keep it. No-one is forcing anyone to do anything, you can just wait for the normal release. For the record I would have HAPPILY donated $4 to play Leviathan, and many were obviously equally happy to donate to play Requiem.
so you saying in chat earlier that you "Weren't" getting any money from this unless ugx decide to means your getting something? ok i see how it works lol
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 04:46:31 pm
so you saying in chat earlier that you "Weren't" getting any money from this unless ugx decide to means your getting something? ok i see how it works lol
I'm glad you've figured it out, well done. :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 04:47:26 pm
I'm glad you've figured it out, well done. :)
i was being sarcastic and quoting your contradiction actually =) your flawed your own logic, get your story straight atleast.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 04:49:14 pm
i was being sarcastic and quoting your contradiction actually =) your flawed your own logic, get your story straight atleast.
Well the donations are going directly to the site first, not me, so I don't see the contradiction there.

I really don't get where you're coming from at all, the donations from this go towards the site and to the mapmaker/s, which is where they should go, or would you prefer it go to some random Youtuber who doesn't give a shit about us or this community?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 02, 2015, 04:52:46 pm
Well the donations are going directly to the site, not me, so I don't see the contradiction there.
uh, no that was not the arrangement and I'm not going to let you start lying about it to slip out of any responsibility or blame. you were the recipient of the largest portion and UGX was receiving the smaller portion as site support.

the donation page said this whole time that it was a donation to you with a portion going to benefit UGX. the only reason our paypal was the one in use was because its a business account capable of receiving these donations on a large scale and is already set up to work with the IPN system we have.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 04:54:17 pm
Well the donations are going directly to the site, not me, so I don't see the contradiction there.
then how does this situation help the mappers?
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 04:55:40 pm
I am 100% for the Requiem Beta Donations and I don't see the problem with it, take a look at how long Requiem and UGX Mod have been in development and the countless Apps such as Weapons Editor (Which IMO is currently the best I know of, saves me hours of headache), just playing Requiem for even an hour will show you the huge amount of work that has been put into the Mod and the map, like Delta said on the updates post and as you've pointed out the huge cost of the framework to be used in the Launcher and also I have no doubt hosting the forum along with the other things like the chat and downloads is not cheap.

In relation to the Stevie situation I am neutral, while I feel everyone should have been given the chance to access Oil Rig, A LOT of work has been put into the map. I can't agree with it, but I also can't disagree with it, but I feel it's worth donating for those who want to access it as I have no doubt the map is very good, and like was repeated 10000 times on the thread, the map will be free when it's released, so I have no issue with.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 04:58:31 pm
uh, no that was not the arrangement and I'm not going to let you start lying about it to slip out of any responsibility or blame. you were the recipient of the largest portion and UGX was receiving the smaller portion as site support.

the donation page said this whole time that it was a donation to you with a portion going to benefit UGX. the only reason our paypal was the one in use was because its a business account capable of receiving these donations on a large scale and is already set up to work with the IPN system we have.
Yes, so the money is going directly to you first. Either way, it's irrelevant, the donations are eventually going to be divided between the site and the mapper, I would have thought that much was obvious to people.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 05:00:50 pm
Yes, so the money is going directly to you first. Either way, it's irrelevant, the donations are eventually going to be divided between the site and the mapper, I would have thought that much was obvious to people.
this is not what you said in chat, you specifically said "im not getting any of this money it goes to ugx to help the website" and i have hitmanvere, andy whelan, uk_viiper  and dualvii to confirm this.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:01:56 pm
this is not what you said in chat, you specifically said "im not getting any of this money it goes to ugx to help the website" and i have hitmanvere, andy whelan, uk_viiper  and dualvii to confirm this.
Post a screenshot then, I never said that.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 05:03:29 pm
i dont have screenshot, any admin in this topic with access to the chat records, please look for this statement. i have 4 people as witness to what you said stevie, stop trying to turn everything around because u dont wanna look like a fool.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:04:48 pm
i dont have screenshot, any admin in this topic with access to the chat records, please look for this statement. i have 4 people as witness to what you said stevie, stop trying to turn everything around because u dont wanna look like a fool.
Turning what around? Clearly it says on the topic how this works, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 05:05:10 pm
I totally like the idea behide this where people who spent over a year on their map so that they could make a little money off there hard work.  But I also do think that the point of custom zombies and has been since 2010 that maps should be free 2 play and not paid.  If people start making other people pay for their map then most of the really good custom zombies map that get relsesed people will have to pay for(It would start to cost a lot if 20 good maps that I want to play that I have to pay for).  That is just how I feel about this topic i can be wrong or I can be right.

Maybe it be a better idea if each map that gets relsesed had a thing where the map was free but if you liked the map and want to help out the mapmaker that you can donate to that mapmaker kind of like what people have been doing.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 05:05:43 pm
i know fine well what it says on the topic but im not discussing the topic, i am discussing your actions in the chat.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 02, 2015, 05:07:49 pm
I think paying for a map is.... Ech, donating to a site or mapper is good tho
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:08:34 pm
i know fine well what it says on the topic but im not discussing the topic, i am discussing your actions in the chat.
Well I never said what you claimed I did, but nevertheless I see don't why that matters to you at all?

Double Post Merge: September 02, 2015, 05:11:36 pm
I think paying for a map is.... Ech, donating to a site or mapper is good tho
Can you give me one single instance, in the history of CZ, where someone has donated to a mapper to show appreciation?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 05:11:46 pm
Well I never said what you claimed I did, but nevertheless I see don't why that matters to you at all?
you really do not have a rational opinion in you do you? you are a liar you know fine well you said it i have 2 chat mods as back up to that bro come on really..
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:13:11 pm
you really do not have a rational opinion in you do you? you are a liar you know fine well you said it i have 2 chat mods as back up to that bro come on really..
I really don't want to get into this, I'm trying to have a civilised debate, post a screenshot or an opinion or just be quiet.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 05:14:44 pm
I really don't want to get into this, I'm trying to have a civilised debate, post a screenshot or an opinion or just be quiet.
as i said i dont have a screenshot but i have 4 people to confirm it
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 05:15:05 pm
Can you give me one single instance, in the history of CZ, where someone has donated to a mapper to show appreciation?
None, that's why we need that button.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:15:56 pm
as i said i dont have a screenshot but i have 4 people to confirm it
That's nice. Well if you don't have anything else to contribute to the discussion then you know what to do. :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 05:16:21 pm
i can agree with a donation button on the topic's but not a release thread that says "donate to get "map"." a donation should be made to the mapper for appreciation in itself not a donation for the actual map files

Double Post Merge: September 02, 2015, 05:16:48 pm
That's nice. Well if you don't have anything else to contribute to the discussion then you know what to do. :)
oh im sorry i didnt know you made this topic? dont get your boots too full mate ;)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 02, 2015, 05:17:01 pm
Can you give me one single instance, in the history of CZ, where someone has donated to a mapper to show appreciation?

the point is we would rather have  feature for donating to a mapper, than for a map
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: BluntStuffy on September 02, 2015, 05:17:37 pm
you really do not have a rational opinion in you do you? you are a liar you know fine well you said it i have 2 chat mods as back up to that bro come on really..

I dont see why you would care where the money is going, you either like the map and think it's worth donating $4 to gain EARLY acces. If you dont, you dont pay and you wait..
Why does it matter if UGX or Stevie or whoever get's the money??

I personally didn't like the idea when Stevie told me about it ( and i spend hundreds of hours on this map prob ), but if you think about it there's nothing really wrong with it. I would personally prefer an optional donation button for all mappers instead of this paying for beta-acces becomming the new norm, but if 1000's of people decide to pay and play then i see a lot of mappers who will prob try and do the same in the future..
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: chromastone10 on September 02, 2015, 05:17:43 pm
i can agree with a donation button on the topic's but not a release thread that says "donate to get "map"." a donation should be made to the mapper for appreciation in itself not a donation for the actual map files

Double Post Merge: September 02, 2015, 05:16:48 pm
oh im sorry i didnt know you made this topic? dont get your boots too full mate ;)

I think the button should be added above the "add respect" button on the left of mappers profiles thing
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:18:16 pm
None, that's why we need that button.
I agree. However UGX has a permanent donate button on the site, available to all. Funny how it saw barely any action until Requiem came out isn't it?
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 02, 2015, 05:19:42 pm
Has this become the topic for adding the donation button now? What color should the button be is purple I say
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 02, 2015, 05:20:59 pm
I agree. However UGX has a permanent donate button on the site, available to all. Funny how it saw barely any action until Requiem came out isn't it?

i'd say it saw quite a bit of action
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: HitmanVere on September 02, 2015, 05:22:02 pm
I don't like the whole situation of having to pay for a beta. Mappers are doing this in their free-times as a hobby, not as a job. If you really need money, then go ahead, get a job. We do this for free as a hobby, we shouldn't be payed to do it. If you want to donate to your favorite mapper, sure, its fine. But don't make it, so that: "Donate to me and you get beta of my map!" That's a dick move.
For example: I was offered 100 dollars by someone generous (not telling his name) for rights for Hotel V2. I refused, since I did the project for free and I enjoyed doing it. I could have gotten the money, but it would have felt wrong, that I would get payed for something I would do for free. I will probably not gain any money from Project C, which is anticipated map and has been in works for over year now, and I'm happy about it. Because at the end of the day, I did something I can be proud of and that a lot of people will enjoy playing it and I will get to see some people play it, their reactions and such, and I don't care, if they get money off from it, that's their business, not mine.
If we start to think payed betas is way to go, sooner or later official releases will be fined to be payed and then we have to pay for everything. If BO3 mod tools comes out, I hope we don't take this there also and just leave it behind.
I also agree with Chroma, small donation button would be better solution, pay-to-play beta system is not way to go.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ege115 on September 02, 2015, 05:25:40 pm
Unfinished product that costs < Finished free product.

For me it's like people who work at a game company to test the developers new game. They don't have to pay to test the developers game, they are getting payed FOR testing their game. Even though I wouldn't like if the finished product had to be donated either (in the custom zombies case). :P

My opinion.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MakeCents on September 02, 2015, 05:27:24 pm
The conundrum is that most modders don't think making money off this hobby is good period, for many reasons, not lets figure out how more people can make money. Money isn't a motivator for me to do this. Money doesn't really motivate me at all actually, but that's a different topic. I need it, so I work, that's it. Anyway...

I want to say and agree with those that say pay if you want and don't if you don't. Cause really, I don't care, lol. Yes, youtubers make money, from advertisement I think, but they provide more than just the map, there is commentary and what not, I am sure the people that watch them enjoy. Otherwise, logically, the mapper that is paid would then have to pay those that helped them and those that they got assets from for them and so on or they are now just like the youtubers people protest so much. Where does it end? ... Fine, I can buy that, they did the work of putting it together. UGX got involved cause this stuff cost money, I get it. I can get past that thought...

But then, I remember, yes I'm old, games were cheap before. You bought the game and that was it. Then game prices elevated, mmo's charged, then dlc weeks after release, sometimes sooner. I stopped buying games period. I'm modding on WAW for pete sake. How old is this game, lol? That's my response to all that. But I'm afraid that is not the popular response. People have money and are willing to pay. Look at the free to plays. Look at companies that stop making new games and concentrate on dlc. That's the way things are going. :( Is this discussion a slippery slope to just more of this? Or, is this a way to privatize what people want more, and bring the cost back down? It is hard to say. Everyone needs paid, I know, I just would hate to see all gaming go Madden.

I think maybe some of the downfall of this was it's promotion method. Perhaps if "Early Access" was used rather than "BETA" it would have been easier to swallow for some. I hear beta and I think I am helping you test your work, not you are letting me play early. Semantics really, whatever. Hell, make a forum just for this and make the forum only for donators. That gives them even more exclusivity for their sacrifice. And like minded people would be in the same area, so you would get less arguments. I think Requiem was done similar, yeah?

And ps, how you guys handle the money, is up to you. You guys sacrifice the time, and can do whatever you want with it. Thank you for a site to come and have a hobby that keeps me out of trouble, lol.

Edit: If game makers start seeing money go towards this kind of thing. You think mod tools are going to come out for newer games? Or do you think they will find a way to capitalize on it more...?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 05:31:09 pm
I don't like the whole situation of having to pay for a beta. Mappers are doing this in their free-times as a hobby, not as a job. If you really need money, then go ahead, get a job. We do this for free as a hobby, we shouldn't be payed to do it. If you want to donate to your favorite mapper, sure, its fine. But don't make it, so that: "Donate to me and you get beta of my map!" That's a dick move.
For example: I was offered 100 dollars by someone generous (not telling his name) for rights for Hotel V2. I refused, since I did the project for free and I enjoyed doing it. I could have gotten the money, but it would have felt wrong, that I would get payed for something I would do for free. I will probably not gain any money from Project C, which is anticipated map and has been in works for over year now, and I'm happy about it. Because at the end of the day, I did something I can be proud of and that a lot of people will enjoy playing it and I will get to see some people play it, their reactions and such, and I don't care, if they get money off from it, that's their business, not mine.
If we start to think payed betas is way to go, sooner or later official releases will be fined to be payed and then we have to pay for everything. If BO3 mod tools comes out, I hope we don't take this there also and just leave it behind.
I also agree with Chroma, small donation button would be better solution, pay-to-play beta system is not way to go.

I do agree with everything your saying hitman, We should do this as a hobby and not doing it for money :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: CraftBrewMan on September 02, 2015, 05:35:35 pm
I am all for making donations and even paying for certain beta maps (as i do).  I think some of the issues is that some of the user community does not understand there is a website to maintain, technology to constantly update and mappers that are investing personal funds to make this happen.  This all takes dollars!

We literally have 100s of free maps between a few zombie sites.  If you think about having to pay 15 bucks for 1 dlc, it is amazing how much free playing we all have done with all this free content.  We all should be happy with this and with no complaints.

- CraftBrewMan

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: timelordalex on September 02, 2015, 05:36:22 pm
I don't like the whole situation of having to pay for a beta. Mappers are doing this in their free-times as a hobby, not as a job. If you really need money, then go ahead, get a job. We do this for free as a hobby, we shouldn't be payed to do it. If you want to donate to your favorite mapper, sure, its fine. But don't make it, so that: "Donate to me and you get beta of my map!" That's a dick move.
For example: I was offered 100 dollars by someone generous (not telling his name) for rights for Hotel V2. I refused, since I did the project for free and I enjoyed doing it. I could have gotten the money, but it would have felt wrong, that I would get payed for something I would do for free. I will probably not gain any money from Project C, which is anticipated map and has been in works for over year now, and I'm happy about it. Because at the end of the day, I did something I can be proud of and that a lot of people will enjoy playing it and I will get to see some people play it, their reactions and such, and I don't care, if they get money off from it, that's their business, not mine.
If we start to think payed betas is way to go, sooner or later official releases will be fined to be payed and then we have to pay for everything. If BO3 mod tools comes out, I hope we don't take this there also and just leave it behind.
I also agree with Chroma, small donation button would be better solution, pay-to-play beta system is not way to go.

My thoughts exactly, +1.  I dont think we should have to pay for custom maps at all, but charging for a beta of a map but then releasing the complete version for free makes even less sense, hence why betas tend to be free as you're not getting the finale finished product. With Requiem it was different, as access to the beta of Requiem was  a perk of being a donor - even though many people viewed it as paying to pay the map - that is what is happening here by the looks of it, I donated cause of all the awesome UGX videos i saw and all the great stuff they were/are doing. When V1.1 comes out that will also bring out many new excellent maps that have been on hold for months/years cause of V1.1. This is one map and once the hype is over and everyone has played the map it wont be a big thing anymore. The last thing I want to see is other people adapting this idea on their maps.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:40:43 pm
My thoughts exactly, +1.  I dont think we should have to pay for custom maps at all, but charging for a beta of a map but then releasing the complete version for free makes even less sense, hence why betas tend to be free as you're not getting the finale finished product. With Requiem it was different, as access to the beta of Requiem was  a perk of being a donor - even though many people viewed it as paying to pay the map - that is what is happening here by the looks of it, I donated cause of all the awesome UGX videos i saw and all the great stuff they were/are doing. When V1.1 comes out that will also bring out many new excellent maps that have been on hold for months/years cause of V1.1. This is one map and once the hype is over and everyone has played the map it wont be a big thing anymore. The last thing I want to see is other people adapting this idea on their maps.
So the problem here is the semantics of the difference between a map and a mod? So if I was releasing a public 'Oil Rig' mod for people to use, then there would be no issue with it then? ???
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TheScotchGuy on September 02, 2015, 05:41:38 pm
So the problem here is the semantics of the difference between a map and a mod? So if I was releasing a public 'Oil Rig' mod for people to use, then there would be no issue with it then? ???
a public use mod helps the community create more content, 1 map doesnt help anything or any other person than you and the ugx paypal =)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: HitmanVere on September 02, 2015, 05:41:53 pm
My thoughts exactly, +1.  I dont think we should have to pay for custom maps at all, but charging for a beta of a map but then releasing the complete version for free makes even less sense, hence why betas tend to be free as you're not getting the finale finished product. With Requiem it was different, as access to the beta of Requiem was  a perk of being a donor - even though many people viewed it as paying to pay the map - that is what is happening here by the looks of it, I donated cause of all the awesome UGX videos i saw and all the great stuff they were/are doing. When V1.1 comes out that will also bring out many new excellent maps that have been on hold for months/years cause of V1.1. This is one map and once the hype is over and everyone has played the map it wont be a big thing anymore. The last thing I want to see is other people adapting this idea on their maps.

I also agree with your point here. In UGX, by donating, you are supporting official release for a mod, that anyone in community can use, when its released. This will boost up community a lot, since then people can make awesome maps with awesome mod. Meanwhile what donating to Stevie gives you? One map and tiny bit of money goes to UGX, which I believe is very small amount. And besides, if for example I would have donated only for Requiem, I would have donated 4 dollars, not 25. I donated, because I want to keep this site alive and want to see 1.1 happen, so we can see maps with higher potential.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: RadimaX on September 02, 2015, 05:43:50 pm
we would rather have  feature for donating to a mapper

i was skeptic to beta but you can always paypal someone after enjoing a specific map but no one is gonna make an investiagion to get some paypal account linked to a profile on a webpage with a map that some streamer explained was made by 5 guys that isnt even correct...the only reason they would actually look at the topic would be to whine about perklimits or Zombie coutners you get the point :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:44:13 pm
I also agree with your point here. In UGX, by donating, you are supporting official release for a mod, that anyone in community can use, when its released. This will boost up community a lot, since then people can make awesome maps with awesome mod. Meanwhile what donating to Stevie gives you? One map and tiny bit of money goes to UGX, which I believe is very small amount. And besides, if for example I would have donated only for Requiem, I would have donated 4 dollars, not 25. I donated, because I want to keep this site alive and want to see 1.1 happen, so we can see maps with higher potential.
Based on what? Without divulging too much information it most certainly isn't 'tiny'. ::)

 

Double Post Merge: September 02, 2015, 05:44:38 pm
i was skeptic to beta but you can always paypal someone after enjoing a specific map but no one is gonna make an investiagion to get some paypal account linked to a profile on a webpage with a map that some streamer explained was made by 5 guys that isnt even correct...the only reason they would actually look at the topic would be to whine about perklimits or Zombie coutners you get the point :)
This guy get's it.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: timelordalex on September 02, 2015, 05:45:05 pm
So the problem here is the semantics of the difference between a map and a mod? So if I was releasing a public 'Oil Rig' mod for people to use, then there would be no issue with it then? ???

no cause the difference of the UGX donation was that you are helping the maintenance of the site, servers and the tools they make etc and one perk for doing so was getting access to the beta of requiem. With oil rig, it is paying to pay a beta more or less.

And even if some of the money does go to UGX that should count as UGX donation aswell imo and previous UGX donators should also be able to try out oil rig.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:46:19 pm
no cause the difference of the UGX donation was that you are helping the maintenance of the site, servers and the tools they make etc and one perk for doing so was getting access to the beta of requiem. With oil rig, it is paying to pay a beta more or less.
And a large percentage of the donations goes towards the site. Which part of that are people struggling with? The money goes to the site and to the mapper, where it's supposed to go.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: HitmanVere on September 02, 2015, 05:47:03 pm
Based on what? Without divulging too much information it most certainly isn't 'tiny'. ::)

uh, no that was not the arrangement and I'm not going to let you start lying about it to slip out of any responsibility or blame. you were the recipient of the largest portion and UGX was receiving the smaller portion as site support.

Smaller portion of 4 dollars is about dollar, which isn't tiny?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Gabrielle on September 02, 2015, 05:50:34 pm
I agree with most people, mapping should be done for fun. The whole engine isn't made by ANY of you and you're making your money off a map in a game that's not even made by you. Of course, you modified a lot, but I think that CZ should stay free. Or at least give people who have bought the map more features. But early access? Meh, I'm not hating so don't say I shouldn't hate as I'm just giving my opinion.

But why is the whole map still in the news? You can't download it or sign up as I'm a """"""New"""""" user??? I don't see how I'm a new user and I don't see why the map should be in the news when in fact it's useless space.

I don't mind giving a mapper money, but I would only do that if I played the map and I really liked it that much that it was worth some money (just as it would've been for example the Rezurrection map pack of BO). But I wouldn't do that to play but to reward the mapper.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 05:51:15 pm
Smaller portion of 4 dollars is about dollar, which isn't tiny?
Since you clearly have no idea about this matter, probably best to just stop.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: HitmanVere on September 02, 2015, 05:57:00 pm
Since you clearly have no idea about this matter, probably best to just stop.

Since nothing goes through your head, not even a bullet, I will stop responding, since I have done my rant already
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 02, 2015, 06:10:02 pm
i just love how this has brought the community together, i think we all deserve a pat on the back
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Cold_banana on September 02, 2015, 06:10:08 pm
Like I mentioned before the best thing is to have donation link under each mappers name so that someone can donate to a mapper who made an old map they loved or an upcoming map, that way its fair
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: TOXICRICHTOFEN on September 02, 2015, 06:10:51 pm
i can understand why this is a beta is paid for but my only complaint is that not everyone has paypal. I stopped using it because of certain issues a few years back.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: BluntStuffy on September 02, 2015, 06:12:23 pm
i just love how this has brought the community together, i think we all deserve a pat on the back

 :D :D


While everybody is freaking out here, i would love to see some numbers of how many people actually donated by now ( so about a day) and after a week for example. I'm just really curious to how many of the 150000+ members ( of wich most cleary dont get involved in the community at all, and might have completely different views on this ) would actually end up paying..
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: conn6orsuper117 on September 02, 2015, 06:13:00 pm
Like I mentioned before the best thing is to have donation link under each mappers name so that someone can donate to a mapper who made an old map they loved or an upcoming map, that way its fair

But then the whole website would become like youtube with their subscriber system.

people would leave stuff in their posts like: "If you like this map please leave a donation and comment. BLAhBLAHBLAh!"
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 02, 2015, 06:13:40 pm
:D :D


While everybody is freaking out here, i would love to see some numbers of how many people actually donated by now ( so about a day) and after a week for example. I'm just really curious to how many of the 150000+ members ( of wich most cleary dont get involved in the community at all, and might have completely different views on this ) would actually end up paying..

100% of users have donated :troll:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: dazzibhoy1 on September 02, 2015, 06:17:43 pm
 
100% of users have donated :troll:
   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
  anyway i love all this bitching 8)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 06:20:13 pm
So on Twitch, some guy can force donations to even give you the right to speak, and receives donations constantly as people watch him play some guy's map whose name isn't even mentioned and who spent a year on it. But donations going to towards the mapper and site and suddenly it's just outrageous? Lol.

People keep going on about 'community'. The backstabbing and bitching in this so called 'community' is unreal. Even the main sites in this tiny 'community' don't get along. 99% of the 'community' who download these maps just download and leave instantly. They never comment, they never contribute anything. If there was a 'donation' button I think the only time it would get used was if one of these people accidentally mistook it for the 'download' button. ;D
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 02, 2015, 06:24:03 pm
what about setting paypal in users signatures?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Wunderful on September 02, 2015, 06:25:15 pm
So on Twitch, some guy can force donations to even give you the right to speak, and receives donations constantly as people watch him play some guy's map whose name isn't even mentioned and who spent a year on it. But donations going to towards the mapper and site and suddenly it's just outrageous? Lol.

People keep going on about 'community'. The backstabbing and bitching in this so called 'community' is unreal. Even the main sites in this tiny 'community' don't get along. 99% of the 'community' who download these maps just download and leave instantly. They never comment, they never contribute anything. If there was a 'donation' button I think the only time it would get used was if one of these people accidentally mistook it for the 'download' button. ;D

I never thought I would agree with Stevie but he makes a pretty good point. Without incentive or getting something in return, unfortunately I don't think hardly anyone would donate with this donation button idea. Also how would you determine who gets a donation button and who doesn't?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MakeCents on September 02, 2015, 06:26:30 pm
So on Twitch, some guy can force donations to even give you the right to speak, and receives donations constantly as people watch him play some guy's map whose name isn't even mentioned and who spent a year on it. But donations going to towards the mapper and site and suddenly it's just outrageous? Lol.


You can't compare wrongs though. Just cause one thing is wrong, doesn't make repeating it right...wait...something like that. I do the maps for fun, so I am paid. I think others are paid as well, especially in respect. Like being a part of the car club. You don't get paid by fixing up your car. You do it cause you like cars. Unless you do comps. Then you do. I don't see the difference really, other than some people have found a way to make people pay. Do we want to be a part of that?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: sevengpluke on September 02, 2015, 06:30:06 pm
I never thought I would agree with Stevie but he makes a pretty good point. Without incentive or getting something in return, unfortunately I don't think hardly anyone would donate with this donation button idea. Also how would you determine who gets a donation button and who doesn't?

Yup there is that point also. Me personally I do it for fun and enjoyment, but who will be chosen to have donatiom buttons under their names? Would it be universal or just limited to members with title. Or just maper titles ???
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Rollonmath42 on September 02, 2015, 06:35:08 pm
Can you give me one single instance, in the history of CZ, where someone has donated to a mapper to show appreciation?

Yes, an example would actually be to me from TheRelaxingEnd. Relaxing donated the Black Ops 2 season pass, Black Ops 3, and Rocket League. By definition those count as donations as a donation is (quote from dictionary) "an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution." therefore it does not have to necessarily be a monetary gift.

The problem I have with the whole situation is that people have the idea that modders (rather use the term modders rather than mappers because a) these are all mods in the end for CoD and b) mappers only include a part of the community, while the other half [or less] are people who make mods whether for SP, ZM, or MP) should be compensated for the work they put into maps. The moment you hit that button that says Compile Map or Build Mod, or even just start making a map in Radiant, everything you worked on no longer is yours, it is Activision's. Therefore, none of us "own" or "created" the mods/maps that we released, they are Activision's. Of course out of the respect for the person who put the time to throw it together, we do credit at least the person for what they did, but legally that's as far as it goes. Activision gave us the mod tools with the EULA that clearly states that we can use the mod tools "for your own personal, non-commercial use in order to create the New Game Materials" (New Game Materials being defined as "new maps, missions, game levels, environments and/or other related game materials for personal use in and with Call of Duty: World at War") with the first bullet point under the License Conditions stating that you "agree that, as a condition to your using the Program Utilities, you will not use ... the Program Utilities and/or the New Game Materials created by you for any commercial purposes, including, but not limited to, selling, renting, leasing, licensing, distributing, or otherwise transferring the ownership of the Program Utilities or the New Game Materials, whether on a stand alone basis or packaged in combination with the New Game Materials created by others, through any and all distribution channels, including, without limitation, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution." with the second point reiterating the statement that "If you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge." So why do people all of a sudden think that we should have the right to have some sort of monetary gain out of tools given to us under the clear restriction that says we are not allowed to? It is pretty obvious even by statements made by Stevie that he is more interested in the money gained out of this.
(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FxYZUGXB.png&hash=896a21ac58ccb7e127236d08d5db000e36ed5d90)

When you "donate" to someone, you do not expect anything in return from that person. You donated as a way of giving thanks to the person for the work they've done. Stating that you must "donate" to have access to what should be a non-commercial item is no longer a "donation", it is a payment, so I'm baffled by the counter arguments of people trying to justify what is in the end selling a mod/map. Of course this may seem contradictory to me being I donated to the site, but my intent for donating was not because of the fact I wanted to play maps from UGX early on (considering I don't even have World at War installed it'd seem pointless). I donated (despite the small amount it was) because I respect the time and work spent on the site. UGX is the only forum I regularly participate in for WaW because it is the only real active forum that doesn't have the same handful of people posting over and over again in each others topics.

Then there is the arguments of YouTubers/Twitch streamers who "generate profits off of mapper's/modder's content". What they make profits off of is the ads displayed on the video, not the actual video itself. If a YouTuber had a video with ads, but all of their viewers had something like AdBlock running, they'd generate no profits at all, and it's because of the viewers they make profits. The money made is not from what they show, it's merely the little 5-30 second ads you skip/watch before you actually see what you are there to see.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Cold_banana on September 02, 2015, 06:35:26 pm
I never thought I would agree with Stevie but he makes a pretty good point. Without incentive or getting something in return, unfortunately I don't think hardly anyone would donate with this donation button idea. Also how would you determine who gets a donation button and who doesn't?

you have to make a $1 donation to ugx to get a donation button
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 06:37:16 pm
you have to make a $1 donation to ugx to get a donation button

So we need to pay to get payed?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Eggies on September 02, 2015, 06:38:07 pm
I'm just going to throw my opinion out there ( not that it probably matters) but I would have to agree with most people here. A donation button below a mappers name rather than a "pay to access beta" would make it seem less like "I WANT MONEYZZ $$$  :rainbow:" and more like asking for a tiny donation to help the process of mapping. Even then, is the tiny amount of $4 to access the beta version enough to create such a large amount of controversy and anger? If you want to play the map, but don't want to pay for it, then simply wait until the ACTUAL FULL map comes out. Besides, mappers DO map for hundreds of hours, perfecting the map to make it fun for YOU. A donation button below the mappers name would be a great way to show gratitude and to help him make more masterpieces.

As for donating to access the beta version, I say this. The mapper spent HUNDREDS or thousands of hours on their map. If you are so impatient you don't want to wait, then just pay $4. Is accessing their HUNDREDS of hours of work early worth less than $4?   :please:

Overall: I think that a donation button under a mappers name is good, but paying to access the beta is meh. However it is understandable why it would be like that.

Also, TWITCH STREAMERS have NOTHING to do with this. This is between mappers, and people who want to access their work early. Not same random person who makes money off their map. No one cares about him  :alone:

Not to be a grammar nazi, but the title is misspelled.  :troll: (Oil Rig Controversy)

I still love you all, though  :nyan:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 06:39:39 pm
You can't compare wrongs though. Just cause one thing is wrong, doesn't make repeating it right...wait...something like that. I do the maps for fun, so I am paid. I think others are paid as well, especially in respect. Like being a part of the car club. You don't get paid by fixing up your car. You do it cause you like cars. Unless you do comps. Then you do. I don't see the difference really, other than some people have found a way to make people pay. Do we want to be a part of that?
Well as it stands the only people getting anything are streamers/YT, personally I don't think that's right, and I'm surprised a lot other mappers are happy with this system. I think this is a fair way to ensure the funds go to the correct place, I repeat the funds are going to the mapper and the site. Why all the outcry now anyway? Comosea and Requiem used the exact same system and barely anyone batted an eyelid.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: sevengpluke on September 02, 2015, 06:39:57 pm
So we need to pay to get payed?

Not a bad idea but that would divide the community in a bad way imo. As the people who donated to get their own donation button would be frowned upon.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 06:41:15 pm
Not a bad idea but that would divide the community in a bad way imo. As the people who donated to get their own donation button would be frowned upon.
Why not just have the site mods verify if you're eligible to have a donation button? just sayin'
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Gabrielle on September 02, 2015, 06:44:33 pm
Well as it stands the only people getting anything are streamers/YT, personally I don't think that's right, and I'm surprised a lot other mappers are happy with this system. I think this is a fair way to ensure the funds go to the correct place, I repeat the funds are going to the mapper and the site. Why all the outcry now anyway? Comosea and Requiem used the exact same system and barely anyone batted an eyelid.

Are you paying Treyarch also for the whole engine and the mod tools? No only for the game. But now you're making money off Treyarch's product. But ah, that's fair right? Don't talk about fair.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 06:45:08 pm
Yes, an example would actually be to me from TheRelaxingEnd. Relaxing donated the Black Ops 2 season pass, Black Ops 3, and Rocket League. By definition those count as donations as a donation is (quote from dictionary) "an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution." therefore it does not have to necessarily be a monetary gift.

The problem I have with the whole situation is that people have the idea that modders (rather use the term modders rather than mappers because a) these are all mods in the end for CoD and b) mappers only include a part of the community, while the other half [or less] are people who make mods whether for SP, ZM, or MP) should be compensated for the work they put into maps. The moment you hit that button that says Compile Map or Build Mod, or even just start making a map in Radiant, everything you worked on no longer is yours, it is Activision's. Therefore, none of us "own" or "created" the mods/maps that we released, they are Activision's. Of course out of the respect for the person who put the time to throw it together, we do credit at least the person for what they did, but legally that's as far as it goes. Activision gave us the mod tools with the EULA that clearly states that we can use the mod tools "for your own personal, non-commercial use in order to create the New Game Materials" (New Game Materials being defined as "new maps, missions, game levels, environments and/or other related game materials for personal use in and with Call of Duty: World at War") with the first bullet point under the License Conditions stating that you "agree that, as a condition to your using the Program Utilities, you will not use ... the Program Utilities and/or the New Game Materials created by you for any commercial purposes, including, but not limited to, selling, renting, leasing, licensing, distributing, or otherwise transferring the ownership of the Program Utilities or the New Game Materials, whether on a stand alone basis or packaged in combination with the New Game Materials created by others, through any and all distribution channels, including, without limitation, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution." with the second point reiterating the statement that "If you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge." So why do people all of a sudden think that we should have the right to have some sort of monetary gain out of tools given to us under the clear restriction that says we are not allowed to? It is pretty obvious even by statements made by Stevie that he is more interested in the money gained out of this.
(http://i.imgur.com/xYZUGXB.png)

When you "donate" to someone, you do not expect anything in return from that person. You donated as a way of giving thanks to the person for the work they've done. Stating that you must "donate" to have access to what should be a non-commercial item is no longer a "donation", it is a payment, so I'm baffled by the counter arguments of people trying to justify what is in the end selling a mod/map. Of course this may seem contradictory to me being I donated to the site, but my intent for donating was not because of the fact I wanted to play maps from UGX early on (considering I don't even have World at War installed it'd seem pointless). I donated (despite the small amount it was) because I respect the time and work spent on the site. UGX is the only forum I regularly participate in for WaW because it is the only real active forum that doesn't have the same handful of people posting over and over again in each others topics.

Then there is the arguments of YouTubers/Twitch streamers who "generate profits off of mapper's/modder's content". What they make profits off of is the ads displayed on the video, not the actual video itself. If a YouTuber had a video with ads, but all of their viewers had something like AdBlock running, they'd generate no profits at all, and it's because of the viewers they make profits. The money made is not from what they show, it's merely the little 5-30 second ads you skip/watch before you actually see what you are there to see.

After taking what was said here into consideration I am more leaning towards the "No to Payed Beta" mindset.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 02, 2015, 06:45:14 pm
I'm just going to throw my opinion out there ( not that it probably matters) but I would have to agree with most people here. A donation button below a mappers name rather than a "pay to access beta" would make it seem less like "I WANT MONEYZZ $$$  :rainbow:" and more like asking for a tiny donation to help the process of mapping. Even then, is the tiny amount of $4 to access the beta version enough to create such a large amount of controversy and anger? If you want to play the map, but don't want to pay for it, then simply wait until the ACTUAL FULL map comes out. Besides, mappers DO map for hundreds of hours, perfecting the map to make it fun for YOU. A donation button below the mappers name would be a great way to show gratitude and to help him make more masterpieces.

As for donating to access the beta version, I say this. The mapper spent HUNDREDS or thousands of hours on their map. If you are so impatient you don't want to wait, then just pay $4. Is accessing their HUNDREDS of hours of work early worth less than $4?   :please:

Also, TWITCH STREAMERS have NOTHING to do with this. This is between mappers, and people who want to access their work early. Not same random person who makes money off their map. No one cares about him  :alone:

Not to be a grammar nazi, but the title is misspelled.  :troll: (Oil Rig Controversy)

I still love you all, though  :nyan:

I just want to back this, a button below the mappers name to donate would IMO, be a good idea since, unlike the paying for beta access, it dosen't restrict people from anything. Its simply something to help the mapper keep working and stay motivated on top of doing it for the community. But that's just my opinion  :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 06:46:39 pm
Are you paying Treyarch also for the whole engine and the mod tools? No only for the game. But now you're making money off Treyarch's product. But ah, that's fair right? Don't talk about fair.
No I did nothing at all towards the creation of the map. And I see you're a donator? Did you donate for Requiem? What were you saying again?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: sevengpluke on September 02, 2015, 06:46:44 pm
Why not just have the site mods verify if you're eligible to have a donation button? just sayin'

What would be the requirements though? Me personally, I'd give it to every member with a title.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DidUknowiPwn on September 02, 2015, 06:47:37 pm
Anyone remember the outlash from Steam Workshop mods? Yeah... same thing applies here.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 06:48:53 pm
How about we leave donations open, and once a certain target is hit the map is released fully?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeathBringerZen on September 02, 2015, 06:49:58 pm
Personally, I think a donation button under a mappers name would be largly ignored no matter how good the mappers work looks. If people can get something free then they take that option 9/10 times.

There is nothing wrong with a mapper offering people the opportunity to beta test their work if they donate. Basically a perk of being a donor is the chance to get early access. For some hear though it is not an incentive for mappers, it's a money grab. Some even being pathetic enough to report it to Activision.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions though. Some see it as selfish and greedy to expect people to pay a few bucks to play an amazing map early while others just hate Stevie and want to use it as an excuse to rant. Me? I am just happy to see it finally released, even in beta form. I hope those who ignored the riots are enjoying one of the best custom maps ever made. :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 02, 2015, 06:50:52 pm
How about we leave donations open, and once a certain target is hit the map is released fully?
No, that's still paying for a map
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 06:52:02 pm
Personally, I think a donation button under a mappers name would be largly ignored no matter how good the mappers work looks. If people can get something free then they take that option 9/10 times.

There is nothing wrong with a mapper offering people the opportunity to beta test their work if they donate. Basically a perk of being a donor is the chance to get early access. For some hear though it is not an incentive for mappers, it's a money grab. Some even being pathetic enough to report it to Activision.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions though. Some see it as selfish and greedy to expect people to pay a few bucks to play an amazing map early while others just hate Stevie and want to use it as an excuse to rant. Me? I am just happy to see it finally released, even in beta form. I hope those who ignored the riots are enjoying one of the best custom maps ever made. :)
Can always trust Zen to provide a reasoned and balanced opinion. +1
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: InFInIX on September 02, 2015, 06:52:55 pm
I play custom zombies mainly because of the free maps and i don't see a point why any mapper should get money for making these maps if they made them without pay anything and also why should i pay for the buggy beta version off a map? ???
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 06:53:18 pm
No, that's still paying for a map
No it isn't. People are donating to show their appreciation and I'm donating back the released map in return as a sign of my appreciation. ::)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 02, 2015, 06:55:20 pm
No it isn't. People are donating to show their appreciation and I'm donating back the released map in return as a sign of my appreciation. ::)
Curse your logic
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 02, 2015, 06:57:22 pm
No it isn't. People are donating to show their appreciation and I'm donating back the released map in return as a sign of my appreciation. ::)

ah in the same way that i donate my money to a shop and in return they donate me some food :troll:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeathBringerZen on September 02, 2015, 06:58:33 pm
I play custom zombies mainly because of the free maps and i don't see a point why any mapper should get money for making these maps if they made them without pay anything and also why should i pay for the buggy beta version off a map? ???

This is the reason most great mappers make 1 or 2 maps and leave the scene. No incentive to stick around and no appreciation for their hard work.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 06:59:04 pm
ah in the same way that i donate my money to a shop and in return they donate me some food :troll:
No more similar to the way you donated so you could play Requiem. ::)
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 06:59:27 pm
Well then. Just to anyone wanting to bring the legal aspect into this. :P

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8m5WPiq.png&hash=d9402cd7c3c99acd775b5d00b0b94f1416bac89a)
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 07:02:57 pm
Well then. Just to anyone wanting to bring the legal aspect into this. :P

(http://i.imgur.com/8m5WPiq.png)
Taylor Bates, sounds like the kid who grasses on you at school when you sneak in late and the teacher doesn't notice ;D
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MechromancerX on September 02, 2015, 07:05:58 pm
I'm sorry that i look at this from my perspective, if i am totally wrong, delete my post.

From the other side, 4000$ for a one year license is a huge chunk of the money that has been donated by today if you consider that there are like 1500 donors with an average 5$ each. (just an example to give a perspective)
To keep this site running it requires a decent amount of money, not even talking about improving which is all we want right?

Not saying that UGX is in money problems (isn't even my bussiness), but i understand they try to come up with ideas like these to finance the costs because you always need to be in terms of money one step ahead. And every little bit helps.

The paid betas idea unfortunately has a lot of mixed feelings, if you want to know my opinion: i'm the guy that has the patience and no problem with waiting for the actual release. So i read the post, had no problem with it and thought: "I'll just wait".

Some ideas that i would like to share:
- That the beta (In this case Oil Rig) is also included in the UGX donorship like the UGX-mod. It could give with moments a raise in the amount of new donors, mapper will get something in return (what fits the best);
- I see the mapping contest has a nice amount of maps to look forward to, so same idea like this, but a pre released map pack, a % of the profit goes to the 1st, 2nd and 3th place and so on ... (denies the stevie-haters and the people who say this idea was not good because it is just 1 map).

And ofcourse most of the amount of people with the mixed feelings here are the actual mappers, so it could be that people who just play the maps have absolutely no problem with paying for good beta maps. So if you would disagree as a mapper, well then you just don't do it. Simple.

Again if i mishit the ball, please correct me :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 02, 2015, 07:06:50 pm
No more similar to the way you donated so you could play Requiem. ::)

nice try i donated on 2 occasions 10 and 15 dollars, both before requiem :P
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Spaceman99 on September 02, 2015, 07:09:10 pm
i don't think you must keep the donation open don't be Activision :D :D :D
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: bportjoey on September 02, 2015, 07:09:31 pm
I'm tired of people like Dilekjd raking in the paper while the people who are creating the actual content get jack shit w 0 recognition, I suggest a donation button for each ESTABLISHED mapper, I've gone out of my way trying to donating to several map makers on this site but couldn't do so, I couldn't pm them due to my lost post count at the time (which is fine), resorting to their twitter/facebook asking how to send them a donations, which is way to much effort to show my support.  I wish it was easier like other mod/dev sites.   
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 02, 2015, 07:13:21 pm
Well then. Just to anyone wanting to bring the legal aspect into this. :P

(http://i.imgur.com/8m5WPiq.png)

Illegal? Out? I wouldn't think an actual treyarch rep would have so many spelling mistakes. Mind providing a link to the twitter profile? Just to verify.

Edit. On a tablet... illegal is supposed to be spelled wrong.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Rollonmath42 on September 02, 2015, 07:16:04 pm
Well then. Just to anyone wanting to bring the legal aspect into this. :P

(http://i.imgur.com/8m5WPiq.png)

Not even the official Treyarch twitter account, just looked it up and a lot of spelling errors, considering the official Treyarch twitter account is @Treyarch, not @TreyarchHQ.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 07:17:02 pm
Illegal? Out? I wouldn't think an actual treyarch rep would have so many spelling mistakes. Mind providing a link to the twitter profile? Just to verify.


https://twitter.com/TreyarchHQ

Looking at the follow count now looks a bit off, but you never know. And it doesn't seem associated with ATV or 3ARC at all, so it might be bogus.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Rollonmath42 on September 02, 2015, 07:17:56 pm
https://twitter.com/TreyarchHQ (https://twitter.com/TreyarchHQ)

Looking at the follow count now looks a bit off, but you never know. And it doesn't seem associated with ATV or 3ARC at all, so it might be bogus.

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FI864WMu.png&hash=e48e598ed7952dd19b4edeb6ccfb83c2380b80e9)
Especially with that sort of activity.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: chromastone10 on September 02, 2015, 07:19:09 pm
i dont think thats a real page :P
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeathBringerZen on September 02, 2015, 07:19:46 pm
Illegal? Out? I wouldn't think an actual treyarch rep would have so many spelling mistakes. Mind providing a link to the twitter profile? Just to verify.

Edit. On a tablet... illegal is supposed to be spelled wrong.

If I was to guess, I would say Stevie set that fake Treyarch support account up with the intention of intercepting all complaints against his beta/donor plan.

Very crafty Stevie. Bravo!
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: chromastone10 on September 02, 2015, 07:21:45 pm
If I was to guess, I would say Stevie set that fake Treyarch support account up with the intention of intercepting all complaints against his beta/donor plan.

Very crafty Stevie. Bravo!

death your profile pic really gives me the heebie-jeebies
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DarkWhiss on September 02, 2015, 07:22:30 pm
To those of you who reported the site to Activision could have killed the whole idea of BO3 mod tools coming out.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: sparrow123 on September 02, 2015, 07:22:50 pm
can somebody please help me get OIL RIG working. It Say's "unauthorized user visit" and i have internet connection and my account's online. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: chromastone10 on September 02, 2015, 07:23:28 pm
To those of you who reported the site to Activision could have killed the whole idea of BO3 mod tools coming out.

nah I think bo3 mod tools and maps would have their own steam workshop
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 02, 2015, 07:23:49 pm
To those of you who reported the site to Activision could have killed the whole idea of BO3 mod tools coming out.

it was already dead
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 07:29:30 pm
If I was to guess, I would say Stevie set that fake Treyarch support account up with the intention of intercepting all complaints against his beta/donor plan.

Very crafty Stevie. Bravo!

Can always trust Zen to provide a reasoned and balanced opinion. +1

Um, never mind. ;D
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 02, 2015, 07:30:56 pm
UGX 2017

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fg8RUDYi.jpg&hash=83e505ddc2b3616ebcdb269fb89b2149154f256f)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Spaceman99 on September 02, 2015, 07:36:06 pm
UGX 2017

(http://i.imgur.com/g8RUDYi.jpg)
my homepage it's different and why 2017 we're in 2015
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 02, 2015, 07:47:25 pm
my homepage it's different and why 2017 we're in 2015
'

not sure if joking or just stupid
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 07:52:38 pm
UGX 2017

(http://i.imgur.com/g8RUDYi.jpg)

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFd1qO7g.png&hash=68e4c677922875732c7c5193bd01c8d64a4c332a)

:troll: :troll: :troll:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 02, 2015, 08:08:37 pm
So there's a beta out right for Oil Rig... but every time I see someone getting an error. No one is helping them. They donated and then they can't play the map and you don't help them. Example:
can somebody please help me get OIL RIG working. It Say's "unauthorized user visit" and i have internet connection and my account's online. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 02, 2015, 08:10:30 pm
So there's a beta out right for Oil Rig... but every time I see someone getting an error. No one is helping them. They donated and then they can't play the map and you don't help them. Example:
lol how do you know he hasn't been helped?? I sent him a PM 10 minutes ago when I saw his reply. And yes the beta works for those who got it before we took it down.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 02, 2015, 08:16:51 pm
Oh okay. I didn't know this sorry. I wasn't seeing anything in the replies and also would have thought that there could be like a fix in the topic. Saying "If you're having problems, follow this or something" sorry.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DuaLVII on September 02, 2015, 08:27:40 pm
What a shame, UGX, Was a great community, Kept us clean from the zombie modding aids. Then this happened.

I have shared my opinions in so many words about this today which a lot of it isn't shown because it was all deleted, Stevie has seriously let himself down not that he cared as his vision was blured in dollar signs.

The way some (who's name I will not mention) bring youtubers into the arguement and Tom-BMX (Which, agree'd, what he was doing was illegal by a tremendous stretch) was just reaching to make themselves believe that this was all such a top idea. The logic was non-existant.

Really don't want too waste any more time on this and do certainly not want any part in it and this community.

I'm out  ;)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: arceus on September 02, 2015, 08:34:09 pm
id like to say who gives a single fuck..... honestly does it effect you in any way??? NO if they want to do this let them do this. this should only matter to people that want to donate if your not going to donate wait for the final release and stop being a bunch of bitches about it... grow the fuck up everyone.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: sparrow123 on September 02, 2015, 08:41:25 pm
lol how do you know he hasn't been helped?? I sent him a PM 10 minutes ago when I saw his reply. And yes the beta works for those who got it before we took it down.
yeah man still having problems but can't send pm WEIRD?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: BluntStuffy on September 02, 2015, 08:42:01 pm
What a shame, UGX, Was a great community, Kept us clean from the zombie modding aids. Then this happened.

I have shared my opinions in so many words about this today which a lot of it isn't shown because it was all deleted, Stevie has seriously let himself down not that he cared as his vision was blured in dollar signs.

The way some (who's name I will not mention) bring youtubers into the arguement and Tom-BMX (Which, agree'd, what he was doing was illegal by a tremendous stretch) was just reaching to make themselves believe that this was all such a top idea. The logic was non-existant.

Really don't want too waste any more time on this and do certainly not want any part in it and this community.

I'm out  ;)

lmao, after it's been done once or twice before now all of the sudden it's different? UGX can do it, but a single mapper cant? If it wasn't for the agreement that come's with the mod tools UGX wouldn't have come up with this system either ( just my guess ::) ). It's just wrong from a modding perspective, true. Is it really such a big deal and worth all this commotion? i dont think so, just dont pay for it if you dont want to.. The map will be released anyway later

Dont get me wrong, i'm not happy with this idea and would have rather seen the map get released normal. I also certainly dont hope this will be a new thing amongst mappers, but uehm:

id like to say who gives a single fuck..... honestly does it effect you in any way??? NO if they want to do this let them do this. this should only matter to people that want to donate if your not going to donate wait for the final release and stop being a bunch of bitches about it... grow the fuck up everyone.

 :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 08:44:19 pm
lmao, after it's been done once or twice before now all of the sudden it's different? UGX can do it, but a single mapper cant? If it wasn't for the agreement that come's with the mod tools UGX wouldn't have come up with this system either ( just my guess ::) ). It's just wrong from a modding perspective, true. Is it really such a big deal and worth all this commotion? i dont think so, just dont pay for it if you dont want to.. The map will be released anyway later

Dont get me wrong, i'm not happy with this idea and would have rather seen the map get released normal. I also certainly dont hope this will be a new thing amongst mappers, but uehm:

 :)
+1
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 02, 2015, 08:47:34 pm
yeah man still having problems but can't send pm WEIRD?
Sorry, use https://jira.ugx-mods.com/servicedesk/customer/portal/6
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: sparrow123 on September 02, 2015, 08:54:13 pm
Sorry, use https://jira.ugx-mods.com/servicedesk/customer/portal/6
wont let me use the UGX account want me to create a new one?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MakeCents on September 02, 2015, 08:59:40 pm
lmao, after it's been done once or twice before now all of the sudden it's different? UGX can do it, but a single mapper cant? If it wasn't for the agreement that come's with the mod tools UGX wouldn't have come up with this system either ( just my guess ::) ). It's just wrong from a modding perspective, true. Is it really such a big deal and worth all this commotion? i dont think so, just dont pay for it if you dont want to.. The map will be released anyway later

Dont get me wrong, i'm not happy with this idea and would have rather seen the map get released normal. I also certainly dont hope this will be a new thing amongst mappers, but uehm:

 :)

Good points as always. Love the final response, lol. But as a reminder to everyone. Comparing things to things that been done before is just not right. Tons of things have been done before, horrible things, things that were acceptable at one time, and they continue to be done, unless people make a commotion, as history has proven. But this topic has prob got a little out of hand. Perhaps this should be looked at retrospectively, but I wouldn't simply accept things because they were done before.  ;D

What is the difference from before? Were the previous ones only on the front page, not in the released section?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: dobbie18595 on September 02, 2015, 09:03:37 pm
In my opinion this map is well worth 4 quid and i am more than happy with it. I think more maps should be like this because you end up with much better quality maps. sure just look at requiem and this map. They are both "treyarch standard" maps. I hope there is more maps like these to come. ME PLAYIN THIS MAP  :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 02, 2015, 09:13:13 pm
wont let me use the UGX account want me to create a new one?
yeah its separate from UGX
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: sparrow123 on September 02, 2015, 09:18:33 pm
yeah its separate from UGX
password policy?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: CyberMan1011 on September 02, 2015, 09:28:15 pm
How about we leave donations open, and once a certain target is hit the map is released fully?

Isn't this supposed to be a beta? I mean, if you guys actually did do this instead, what if the certain target already gets reached within a few hours? (Though to be honest I highly doubt the target would get reached that quick)

Are you just going to release it in its current state like that?
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 09:34:13 pm
Isn't this supposed to be a beta? I mean, if you guys actually did do this instead, what if the certain target already gets reached within a few hours? (Though to be honest I highly doubt the target would get reached that quick)

Are you just going to release it in its current state like that?

I think he's talking about "target" in terms of cash? or is that what you mean also?
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: CyberMan1011 on September 02, 2015, 09:36:46 pm
I think he's talking about "target" in terms of cash? or is that what you mean also?

Yeah, by "target" I was referring to cash.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 02, 2015, 09:42:15 pm
Quote
lmao, after it's been done once or twice before now all of the sudden it's different? UGX can do it, but a single mapper cant?

People(such as myself) have called out the paid beta/mod practice before but where immediately silenced with warnings or threats of being banned. As far as i'm aware, this is the first time an open discussion has taken place where none of that has happened(so far).

For the moral side of things... well, why would a mapper ever officially release their map when they could just keep it a 'beta' forever and keep making money? They really don't have a reason to do so, do they?

and isn't the point of a beta to test things anyway? How does a paywall help a mapper test their map?

side note: i was going to present my view on the legal side of things but wasn't sure if that was allowed.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 09:47:01 pm

side note: i was going to present my view on the legal side of things but wasn't sure if that was allowed.


It's an open discussion so I don't see why you can't use it.

For the moral side of things... well, why would a mapper ever officially release their map when they could just keep it a 'beta' forever and keep making money? They really don't have a reason to do so, do they?



This is something that crosses my mind (and I think someone else mentioned it similarly just worded different) that maps would strangely be in "beta" for some time, because like you said why release when you're making money?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 09:47:14 pm
I am all for donating to a site and to get early access for a map as long as the money is being used to help the site or mapper along. i see all the time people uploading videos on youtube and play maps yet the mapper isn't even mentioned that is why i am kind of hesitant to release any of my good project to the community because if that map happens to be popular i don't want to have some guy on youtube making money off of it and not even mention my name. i would donate and get the map beta but i don't have any money right now. so ill have to wait a while and all of the people out there bitching about it deal with it. its gonna come out for the rest of us in 3 weeks - 5 weeks. we waited what 1 year for it an extra 6 weeks is nothing.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 02, 2015, 09:47:53 pm
and isn't the point of a beta to test things anyway? How does a paywall help a mapper test their map?
Youre comparing two different aspects of this and trying to connect them when they are irrelevant to each other. The paywall is incentive for people to actually contribute to the mapper instead of just taking the map for free and never coming back to make any sort of contribution. The debate is whether that's fair, not whether it helps the beta testing process.

side note: i was going to present my view on the legal side of things but wasn't sure if that was allowed.
no, we know this already and you've already stated it a handful of times.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 09:51:16 pm
I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about, they are just donations to play a map? if you don't want to donate to play it - than just wait patiently till it is released publicly. This is actually a good thing they have thought of to help keep the site going longer, imagine all the new and amazing maps people will make.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Wunderful on September 02, 2015, 09:55:04 pm
A little off-topic, but where do we reply to tell Stevie bugs we find in the map?  :poker: Or should we just PM him?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 09:57:52 pm
A little off-topic, but where do we reply to tell Stevie bugs we find in the map?  :poker: Or should we just PM him?
PM me.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 02, 2015, 09:58:34 pm
I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about, they are just donations to play a map? if you don't want to donate to play it - than just wait patiently till it is released publicly. This is actually a good thing they have thought of to help keep the site going longer, imagine all the new and amazing maps people will make.
Everyone knows that no one will release their maps past beta if they can keep getting monies from them. "Donating" is the same as "buying" in this community, but we won't admit it because then Activision could take legal action. Paywall is still there. Naming a donkey "Horse" doesn't make the donkey a horse. It's also not a good thing because then people might release box maps, expecting to have this pay-to-play option. I know what Trem will say that they'll have "standards" for what maps can and can't have the paywall, but then people will be rushing their damn maps just for money and those "standards" will go out then window if times get hard. Hell, less care will even go into maps because it's all about the money. It will then lead to no one wanting to play zombies because someone put the Great Paywall of UGX in front of them.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: sparrow123 on September 02, 2015, 09:59:42 pm
yeah its separate from UGX
want to use skype to fix the problem?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 02, 2015, 10:00:31 pm
I know what Trem will say that they'll have "standards" for what maps can and can't have the paywall, but then people will be rushing their damn maps just for money and those "standards" will go out then window if times get hard. Hell, less care will even go into maps because it's all about the money. It will then lead to no one wanting to play zombies because someone put the Great Paywall of UGX in front of them.
this is ridiculous because no one is going to pay for a map that they don't believe is worth the price. this is just a slope argument really.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 02, 2015, 10:15:40 pm
The paywall is incentive for people to actually contribute to the mapper instead of just taking the map for free and never coming back to make any sort of contribution.

So what your saying is that people who 'donate' are incentivised to report issues because they invested their money into the mod/map? Or am i totally interpreting that wrong?

Quote
no, we know this already and you've already stated it a handful of times.

I don't think everyone has seen my position on it. If you really its not needed i guess i'll just drop it though.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 02, 2015, 10:20:49 pm
So what your saying is that people who 'donate' are incentivised to report issues because they invested their money into the mod/map? Or am i totally interpreting that wrong?
No, thats not at all what I was saying. I'm saying the payment is unrelated to people reporting bugs. It's about compensating the mapper in a way that people will actually do rather than completely ignore. The fact that its only for a beta means that anyone who doesn't want to compensate the mapper in this way can just patiently wait.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: vinnyz500 on September 02, 2015, 10:34:58 pm
With all the controversy with this I don't think it will ever happen again, and honestly if it becomes a norm it will be a god damn shame, a once free community going to shit so the mapper who spends his optional free time can make a quick buck. It's such a shitty thing that this was even allowed, you can't expect people to pay for a map without 75% of everyone getting upset as it is illeagle and shouldn't be done. If it doesn't release within a month or less he's just milking it. It doesn't take long to fix errors

sorry guys, this is just wrong
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 10:38:05 pm
With all the controversy with this I don't think it will ever happen again, and honestly if it becomes a norm it will be a god damn shame, a once free community going to shit so the mapper who spends his optional free time can make a quick buck. It's such a shitty thing that this was even allowed, you can't expect people to pay for a map without 75% of everyone getting upset as it is illeagle and shouldn't be done. If it doesn't release within a month or less he's just milking it. It doesn't take long to fix errors

sorry guys, this is just wrong
It doesn't?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 10:41:45 pm
as it is illegal

sorry guys, this is just wrong

that's just the thing its not technically illegal. they are not selling the map itself. It's like this you donate 4 Dollars and get a free pass to play the map early. this is done everywhere more than you know. buy 5 of these and get a chance to win this. since they are not directly selling the map but are asking for a donation with a free map attached too it, its not illegal. the same thing is done all the time. buy this dvd and get a chance to win this. preorder this and get early access to this. its completely legal.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 10:44:18 pm
its completely legal.

So you understand the law fully and know 100% this is legal?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 02, 2015, 10:47:18 pm
It doesn't?

More than a month? Personally don't think it does. May take a bit to get together a good COOP team but i still think testing a map could be done in under a month.

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 02, 2015, 10:51:22 pm
More than a month? Personally don't think it does. May take a bit to get together a good COOP team but i still think testing a map could be done in under a month.
I thought you were one for having the cleanest, bug-free maps DD? Such a blasé attitude towards bugs, I have to say I'm shocked Deadra, I really am.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 10:51:34 pm
So you understand the law fully and know 100% this is legal?

not completely but in this case i believe what they are doing is fine. its a bit of a loophole but to be honest, is it really that bad.

If you want you can read this. https://www.activision.com/legal/terms-of-use (https://www.activision.com/legal/terms-of-use)

if you find something that i missed or you interpreted it differently post the clause and we can debate that in another topic. but i beilieve what they are doing is legal.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Nathiri on September 02, 2015, 10:57:14 pm
I have read through every post on this thread and I see the point from both sides. I am leaning towards the not-paid beta argument myself. But I see that some mappers should be more rewarded for their quality work. I dont like the idea that you have to "donate" to get access to one map. With Requiem I did not mind it as much as you were donating to the site first and foremost (although I did not donate myself). With the donator title you had access to the map true, but you also had access to many other stuff. But first you were donating to keep the site alive. Donating shows support and you are more likely to obtain more balanced opinions of the map and people who actually do want the map released playing the map early and helping out with its last stages of development. This is similar to why Treyarch made the BO3 beta for Pre-ordered copies of the game (at first anyway).

With this new idea, many other issues can come in as talked about before in this thread which would have to be thought through.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 02, 2015, 10:59:55 pm
I thought you were one for having the cleanest, bug-free maps DD?

I am. I think you can release an extremely bug free map as long as you use good scripting(coding?) practices(is that even the right term?), such as not doing if condition checks when using variables that don't exist and/or returning functions when something, such as an entity, doesn't have a certain KVP or isn't valid in some other way.

 

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: vinnyz500 on September 02, 2015, 11:06:26 pm
It doesn't?
Have you not been fixing bugs for a long time? Dont be low and hold the map under paid beta, release it asap and ignore the greed in the back of your head
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 02, 2015, 11:08:50 pm
not completely but in this case i believe what they are doing is fine. its a bit of a loophole but to be honest, is it really that bad.


Yes, taking assets that weren't even intended on being as accessible as they are now, using them in a map, and profiting off it is 100% ok, once again I am neutral on the subject, but please have some logic before coming out with this.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 02, 2015, 11:09:38 pm
so is this topic a way to take out anger on the oil rig donation thingy now?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: eliudjb on September 02, 2015, 11:10:22 pm
Well, i dont know from where i can start... :-\

In my opinion about paying for a beta, I disagree. Why? It's suppose in beta version there are testers, testers that the mapper choose to help him fix/detect details before the final release, and of course even in that way the map still have some troubles to fix, which doesn't matter at all.

Second, almost all here confuses the beta with an early access. Paying for the Early access could be better than paying for a beta. The mapper could release the map two weeks before the "Public release" for all those donators. For example:

Oil Rig.
Early Access (not beta :kidding:) - September 1, 2015.
Public Release - September 15, 2015.

For last, I don't like people which earn money playing custom maps WITHOUT any mention or paying to creator. Recieving money from youtubers (example) could be a good business for the mappers. In fact, if they want pay to have an "early" early access (like 3 weeks before the public release) could be better :).

Pretty sure i forgot something but whatever :)
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 11:13:14 pm
Yes, taking assets that weren't even intended on being as accessible as they are now, using them in a map, and profiting off it is 100% ok, once again I am neutral on the subject, but please have some logic before coming out with this.

bringing ported models and such into this is a completely different story and is not even related to my post. i was just pointing out the legality of have a donor beta for a map. and that is legal. but using assets from other games without written approval from the original creator is illegal.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 02, 2015, 11:18:12 pm
Quote
If you want you can read this. https://www.activision.com/legal/terms-of-use (https://www.activision.com/legal/terms-of-use)

Just want to point out that this isn't the actual mod tools EULA. The one people are referring too comes with mods tools and are add-ons to the existing EULA that comes with the game.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 11:21:45 pm
Just want to point out that this isn't the actual mod tools EULA. The one people are referring too comes with mods tools and are add-ons to the existing EULA that comes with the game.

oh thanks but as this is the activision terms of use it still has the same basic set up. and nowhere in this does it say you can't have a UGC(User Generated Content) as an attachment to a 3rd party donation.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 02, 2015, 11:29:20 pm
oh thanks but as this is the activision terms of use it still has the same basic set up. and nowhere in this does it say you can't have a UGC(User Generated Content) as an attachment to a 3rd party donation.

It does if money has to be exchanged to get access to a map/mod. Directly from the EULA:

Quote
•   If you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge.

Just to clear up any confusion. Not everyone knows about it/can see it.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: AoKMiKeY on September 02, 2015, 11:34:03 pm
I am going to write a lot more once this topic has died down a bit but just a quick message about what is legal and what is not.

I studied law before going into IT so what I say next is using my knowledge I gained while I studied law. Some things I am best at is making bullet proof contracts and any other legal document. but on a legal side of paying for maps we need to break down what a map is.

A map is content. The content consists of other peoples content ( normally of course ). Because your map ( content ) contains things like assets from cod games ( content ) and code from other people ( content ) and seeing how Activision own actual copyright over there assets ( content ). And everyone else in this frame owns intellectual property over there stuff ( content ).

There is a huge amount of problems when it comes to being paid for YOUR map ( content ). Ignoring ethics or anything else lets focus on law. If you are to take assets from a game with out permission and pack them into something else others can not easily take out of what ever it is packed into ( basically if you are not giving the raw asset out )  and then giving out that content for FREE is, under technicality and I mean technicality, legal because it is seen as not redistributing content.

The moment money comes into this it's a whole other game. At the point of receiving money for content you do not own the rights to you are stealing and you are undercutting the creator and you are breaking copyright laws.

I am not going to go into the logic on that one but once money is involved in basically asset sharing with assets you do not own you are stealing if you do not have the owners written permission.

Right. That is all from me for now. I will be back with a lot bigger and much better written post either today or tomorrow going over all the ins and outs of donation walls and beta access. But I will not do it now. This is too heated and I want people to read what I am saying with out a huge bias.

So thats the legal stuff. Copyright is a thing and unless it out right says you can have these assets and use them in what ever in the licence agreement then you can not take the assets and give them out. We by packaging them up into a mod for call of duty is just about the only way we are able to only just get away with taking assets from other games. Remember that.

With Love,
From You're amazing weirdo, AoKMiKeY
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 02, 2015, 11:34:26 pm
If you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge.

hmm it does say that doesn't it. but i think there is a loophole here. as they are not paying for the mod itself, but instead they are donating to the person and the site and in return getting early access to a map. its like paying 4 dollars to get full site access. and getting a free map in return. but i see what you are saying. but this could be debated from both sides eternally and i don't think this is the proper place to do that.

Double Post Merge: September 02, 2015, 11:57:44 pm
Stuff and things and things and stuff

i read through this in its entirety and i just have one thing to comment about. saying that you are a law grad means nothing in an internet argument and is not really a good statement to make. it's easy to make a statement like that to make your comment seem more true. now i'm not saying it isn't. i'm just stating that saying something that is IRL to boost a comment isn't very wise as it degrades your over all comment. an example i'm 45 and i have graduated from college and gotten my PHD in civil engineering. so i know everything there is too know about bridges and roads so your argument is invalid. using your status to get people to follow you is known as argument from authority and is bad tactic in debate. as this entire thread is basically a debate. using tactics like this is a terrible way to make a point as people who know how to debate will call you out on them. but other than that your comment was very informing.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: ultimatehero2 on September 02, 2015, 11:51:53 pm
yea why is this a big deal cause I really wanted to play this map and people are all looking at this wrong and the donations are going to the website and plus a free map beta access. p.s worst part i wont be able to get beta access today. 
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: AoKMiKeY on September 03, 2015, 12:08:22 am

I was not doing it to use my IRL experience as a leg up. Just simply saying that I have had some experience and that experience has allowed me to make the post that I have. With out that experience I would have likely not even replied to this topic. But like you have said even with out it my post is still informative and this is all it needed to be :) I will be writing a lot more ( around 1000+ words ) on this topic soon but I need to sit down and write it all down to reduce the amount of back fire I am going to get or might get.

As of now my opinion on this matter stays closed to the public.

elykson343 -> If you want to say anything more then can we leave it to PM? I would rather have a personal conversion over pms and not this topic of all topics :) by just worth noting. Have the experience does give you a leg up. I can also provided evidence of me going to do my law degree but that is neither here nor there. If you have experience in what you are speaking about it does strengthen your case. It does not impend upon authority or show that I have any more or anyless than anyone else. It simply shows that I have knowledge and can back anything I say. So when I am talking about law I will say I have studied because I am then speaking from knowledge and not from nothing.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 03, 2015, 12:16:05 am

i respect you for that and i thank you for a well thought out comment. too many a time there are people who post random shit in these threads thinking it is a work of art, but in all actuality it is just a polished turd. it's good to see there are others out there that can post a well thought out and developed comment.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: AoKMiKeY on September 03, 2015, 12:23:03 am
If there was a like button I would use it for you good sir :)

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 03, 2015, 12:26:00 am
If there was a like button I would use it for you good sir :)


there is its under my name and it says ADD RESPECT
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: tomikaze on September 03, 2015, 01:18:01 am
What the heck!? I was hoping to graciously donate/gift but certainly not under any circumstances pay for an opportunity to assist the mapper by beta testing this epic map. Can I still do that?

On a side note, if this is going to be a thing (which I support in full) then I feel that everyone involved in making the map should get a slice of the pie or at least have an opportunity to benefit from this in accordance with how involved they were in the project. They can certainly decline their share of the donation, but it should be offered at least.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 01:20:25 am
What the heck!? I was hoping to graciously donate/gift but certainly not under any circumstances pay for an opportunity to assist the mapper by beta testing this epic map. Can I still do that?

On a side note, if this is going to be a thing (which I support in full) then I feel that everyone involved in making the map should get a slice of the pie or at least have an opportunity to benefit from this in accordance with how involved they were in the project. They can certainly decline their share of the donation, but it should be offered at least.
How do you know they aren't?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: tomikaze on September 03, 2015, 01:23:05 am
How do you know they aren't?
Which part of my message are you responding too, I wrote a lot can you please be more specific?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 01:26:49 am
On a side note, if this is going to be a thing (which I support in full) then I feel that everyone involved in making the map should get a slice of the pie or at least have an opportunity to benefit from this in accordance with how involved they were in the project. They can certainly decline their share of the donation, but it should be offered at least.
This part. The people who have spent a lot of time working with me on this map, which basically is one person, will be compensated fairly.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: JiffyNoodles on September 03, 2015, 04:50:31 am
The paywall is incentive for people to actually contribute to the mapper instead of just taking the map for free and never coming back to make any sort of contribution. The debate is whether that's fair, not whether it helps the beta testing process.
I understand your logic in this situation Treminaor, but unfortunately, I have to disagree with you. Adding a pay-to-play feature to a map doesn't offer incentive, I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. Take Black Ops 3 BETA for example, how many little kids managed to convince their mother and/or father to pre-order it for them, just so they could show off to all their friends that they had the game? Probably a tonne of them.

Now, don't get me wrong, there would be people out there who got Black Ops 3 to actually test and help the community to patch any major/gamebreaking issues within them game itself. Where am I going with this? I'm basically comparing this map to it. This is still a BETA mind you, so they are very similar in the aspect that it's around 90-95% finalised already. But the point here is, plenty of little kids have managed to get a hold of a VISA card (or any bank card of that matter) and just spent the money to get the map and play it, and never tell of any bugs, but will show up on the release topic and bitch about the bugs upon release, and there would that handful of people who actually want to test the map out and to see how well it goes, looking for bugs etc. The same logic above can also be applied to requiem.

The major downfall of these maps is the publicity it gets from YT channels like YAW, MrDalekJD, Laggin24x etc, is what kills these maps, because these channels have 100's of 1000's of fans, and all they want to do is whatever they are doing, which is playing these awesome maps, not report bugs, help the community, be a good bloke etc.

One final point to point out here, we all remember the map called Project Viking right? Of course we do, It was one of the single-biggest release of 2014 (possibly second only to The Swan). That map, was also a BETA, and was it a pay-to-play map? no, of course it wasn't. Plus, the mapper, Redspace200 told me himself that although the map wasn't a full release, and that he had no intention of fully releasing it, he was extremely happy with it staying as an open BETA for as long as it lives.

Case in point, this pay-to-play stand for this map does NOT incentive to come back and offer help in the form of bug reports. Donating to UGX-Mods because we want to see the mod come along as best as it can, and receive a map as a reward? All for it. Forcing people to donate to a mapper to be able to play the map as a way of saying 'Thank you'?
Nope. :poker:

I personally have an Idea to make it better. If you donated to this map, you should be gain access to something only a donator can have (custom player model, Custom name, extra options when hosting a co-op game, etc.) upon full release.

With regards,
JiffyNoodles
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 03, 2015, 05:49:00 am
I understand your logic in this situation Treminaor, but unfortunately, I have to disagree with you. Adding a pay-to-play feature to a map doesn't offer incentive, I'm sorry, but it just doesn't.
I know for fact it does, we've had a donation button for 3+ years and it became about 1000x more active once there was a map behind it.

As far as the rest of your post I honestly don't see how it's even relevant.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Money Scand..., I mean 'Controversy'
Post by: JiffyNoodles on September 03, 2015, 06:49:56 am
I know for fact it does, we've had a donation button for 3+ years and it became about 1000x more active once there was a map behind it.

As far as the rest of your post I honestly don't see how it's even relevant.
Trem, please, hear me out, Your map, UGX Requiem, straight to UGX-Mods to fund the making of UGX-Mod Version 1.1.
This, this is mostly giving Stevie back the money he spent on the games he needed to rip models, anims, sounds etc.
I understand you're almighty and powerful, but yeah, the message was basically telling you people only donated to gain access to your map, then disappear into the abyss of the internet, never to be seen again.

(relevant info, you know, stuff you must've missed)
Case in point, this pay-to-play stand for this map does NOT incentive to come back and offer help in the form of bug reports. Donating to UGX-Mods because we want to see the mod come along as best as it can, and receive a map as a reward? All for it. Forcing people to donate to a mapper to be able to play the map as a way of saying 'Thank you'?
Nope. :poker:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: archmeister94 on September 03, 2015, 06:54:20 am
If stevie uploaded the beta and said "Heres the open beta, please if you like the map make a donation in to my paypal." I would happily donate $4 or more but I'm not paying to play the map early!  The way I see it is your charging people to play it early,  there are many points that have been said many times before about the matter but that's just how I see it.  "Well its optional you don't have pay, you can wait for the public release"  True, but how long is that gonna be?  I mean Requiem taking its time (I do believe that there are plans for public release soon), he could never public release the map.

And what about me and all the other map makers?  Can we release some unfinished map say it's in "BETA" and then charge people to play it?  It looks like a slippery slope that could ruin the community, just because someone wanted some money for there work.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: conn6orsuper117 on September 03, 2015, 07:12:09 am
I know for fact it does, we've had a donation button for 3+ years and it became about 1000x more active once there was a map behind it.

As far as the rest of your post I honestly don't see how it's even relevant.

But Trem,
 with the donation we get special inside info on [CENSORED: TOP SECRET] and on the side of getting a rank that would last permanently. We would be recognized by donating for you to get more props for the UGX store and maybe another engine to work on.

With Oil Rig, We would just be donating for a map that will be free in just about a week. Not to mention I'm not paying after the whole "event" between MZ and Stevie, yet He gains the audacity to ask for money from me?

Spoiler: click to open...
Just kidding everyone knows about requiem by now
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: RadimaX on September 03, 2015, 07:53:37 am
And what about me and all the other map makers? Can we release some unfinished map say it's in "BETA" and then charge people to play it? It looks like a slippery slope

First of all NO ONE would even concider donating to someone making a shitty BOXMAP BETA lol so there is no slips or slopes then again if you make even half as decent map as oilrig then maby you should be on the first page on ugx :P but lets stop speculating and get real since i doubt you will make something like oilrig anyways there is no need for this hypothetical discussion. However if you DO it then welcome back 2016-2017 when your map is up to snuff and we can talk about it then...
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversy
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 11:27:17 am
Trem, please, hear me out, Your map, UGX Requiem, straight to UGX-Mods to fund the making of UGX-Mod Version 1.1.
This, this is mostly giving Stevie back the money he spent on the games he needed to rip models, anims, sounds etc.
What do you think funds the making of UGX Mod V.1.1? More than anything, and I'm sure Trem will agree, it's the sheer man hours that is the biggest problem. Sure, you could make a shitty mod/map in a short amount a time, and sure you could try to make it donation only. Like Radi says, is anyone going to pay for that? Of course not, such a lame argument to say 'well everyone is going to do this now'. Since I've been in the scene, I can count about 3 maybe 4 maps that are of the standard that I would happily pay for them. The rest I don't even download when they are free!

With Oil Rig, We would just be donating for a map that will be free in just about a week. Not to mention I'm not paying after the whole "event" between MZ and Stevie, yet He gains the audacity to ask for money from me?
Lol. After what? A discussion about a flag that you weren't even involved in in any way at all? :facepalm:
And clearly it wouldn't be a week. More like 2 months. In fact I'm thinking about setting an exact date for full release so people can't whine about 'well he'll just never release it now'.

I know for fact it does, we've had a donation button for 3+ years and it became about 1000x more active once there was a map behind it.
I said this earlier but people refused to believe it; people rarely donate out of the kindness of their heart alone, you might think 'well if they enjoy the map and there's a donate button people will happily donate' like fuck they will. ;D 99% of people will only 'donate' if they know they are getting something in return. It's a fact.

Anyway, since it's not really a beta, it's more like early access, it should have been named as such to avoid any confusion.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GdayitsVishnu on September 03, 2015, 12:12:43 pm
place your bets here folks! 90%  of the UGX community vs UGX site mods, owners and Steviewonder, its gonna be a great night Only on ESPN
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 03, 2015, 12:23:24 pm
Quote
I said this earlier but people refused to believe it; people rarely donate out of the kindness of their heart alone, you might think 'well if they enjoy the map and there's a donate button people will happily donate' like fuck they will. ;D 99% of people will only 'donate' if they know they are getting something in return. It's a fact.

I don't think 99% of people on UGX have donated, lol.

IMO, If your putting something like a map behind a paywall then its no longer a donation. At that point you are selling a product in exchange for money, which i don't think should be allowed. A major reason why the modding scene(not just this one, but others too) is the fact that mods are free. If people have to pay for mods(beta or full) then people will no longer want to download them.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Rollonmath42 on September 03, 2015, 12:49:45 pm
IMO, If your putting something like a map behind a paywall then its no longer a donation. At that point you are selling a product in exchange for money, which i don't think should be allowed. A major reason why the modding scene(not just this one, but others too) is the fact that mods are free. If people have to pay for mods(beta or full) then people will no longer want to download them.

Basically what I stated earlier on in the topic but my reply seemed to get no attention despite the backup/evidence it has pertaining to the subject, so here it is again.

Can you give me one single instance, in the history of CZ, where someone has donated to a mapper to show appreciation?

Yes, an example would actually be to me from TheRelaxingEnd. Relaxing donated the Black Ops 2 season pass, Black Ops 3, and Rocket League. By definition those count as donations as a donation is (quote from dictionary) "an act or instance of presenting something as a gift, grant, or contribution." therefore it does not have to necessarily be a monetary gift.

The problem I have with the whole situation is that people have the idea that modders (rather use the term modders rather than mappers because a) these are all mods in the end for CoD and b) mappers only include a part of the community, while the other half [or less] are people who make mods whether for SP, ZM, or MP) should be compensated for the work they put into maps. The moment you hit that button that says Compile Map or Build Mod, or even just start making a map in Radiant, everything you worked on no longer is yours, it is Activision's. Therefore, none of us "own" or "created" the mods/maps that we released, they are Activision's. Of course out of the respect for the person who put the time to throw it together, we do credit at least the person for what they did, but legally that's as far as it goes. Activision gave us the mod tools with the EULA that clearly states that we can use the mod tools "for your own personal, non-commercial use in order to create the New Game Materials" (New Game Materials being defined as "new maps, missions, game levels, environments and/or other related game materials for personal use in and with Call of Duty: World at War") with the first bullet point under the License Conditions stating that you "agree that, as a condition to your using the Program Utilities, you will not use ... the Program Utilities and/or the New Game Materials created by you for any commercial purposes, including, but not limited to, selling, renting, leasing, licensing, distributing, or otherwise transferring the ownership of the Program Utilities or the New Game Materials, whether on a stand alone basis or packaged in combination with the New Game Materials created by others, through any and all distribution channels, including, without limitation, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution." with the second point reiterating the statement that "If you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge." So why do people all of a sudden think that we should have the right to have some sort of monetary gain out of tools given to us under the clear restriction that says we are not allowed to? It is pretty obvious even by statements made by Stevie that he is more interested in the money gained out of this.
(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FxYZUGXB.png&hash=896a21ac58ccb7e127236d08d5db000e36ed5d90)

When you "donate" to someone, you do not expect anything in return from that person. You donated as a way of giving thanks to the person for the work they've done. Stating that you must "donate" to have access to what should be a non-commercial item is no longer a "donation", it is a payment, so I'm baffled by the counter arguments of people trying to justify what is in the end selling a mod/map. Of course this may seem contradictory to me being I donated to the site, but my intent for donating was not because of the fact I wanted to play maps from UGX early on (considering I don't even have World at War installed it'd seem pointless). I donated (despite the small amount it was) because I respect the time and work spent on the site. UGX is the only forum I regularly participate in for WaW because it is the only real active forum that doesn't have the same handful of people posting over and over again in each others topics.

Then there is the arguments of YouTubers/Twitch streamers who "generate profits off of mapper's/modder's content". What they make profits off of is the ads displayed on the video, not the actual video itself. If a YouTuber had a video with ads, but all of their viewers had something like AdBlock running, they'd generate no profits at all, and it's because of the viewers they make profits. The money made is not from what they show, it's merely the little 5-30 second ads you skip/watch before you actually see what you are there to see.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 12:58:53 pm
I don't think 99% of people on UGX have donated, lol.

IMO, If your putting something like a map behind a paywall then its no longer a donation. At that point you are selling a product in exchange for money, which i don't think should be allowed. A major reason why the modding scene(not just this one, but others too) is the fact that mods are free. If people have to pay for mods(beta or full) then people will no longer want to download them.
Where the fuck did I say that?  :facepalm:

And Rollon, we heard you the first time, no need to repost that block of text again, it's already in this thread. I know people are desperate to get their 2 cents in though. ::)

Also RelaxingEnd buying you some games is just as much a 'donation' as this is, unless you're going to lie and say he didn't get anything in return from you?


place your bets here folks! 90%  of the UGX community vs UGX site mods, owners and Steviewonder, its gonna be a great night Only on ESPN
Except it's nothing like 90%.

There are 150,000+ members on UGX, the vast majority of whom don't interact with the site in any meaningful way other than to download maps and leave. There are about maybe 30-40 actual core posters here. Many of whom don't particularly like me for whatever reason (I mean I'm so lovable I don't get it?).

Incidentally, the people with this pseudo-outrage posting on this thread are part of the aforementioned 30-40 core members. Now in this thread alone there are quite a few people indifferent to, or outright supporting it, including well respected, long time members of this community like Treminaor, Tomikaze, DeathBringerZen, Bluntstuffy, Radimax, myself and others.

Sure there's a few people who want to whine, and God knows this 'community' loves to jump in on a bit of drama, and make their voices louder than anyone else's. But there's maybe 10-15 people out of the actual core members who have expressed any dislike to this whole thing. The other 150,000+ members are blissfully unaware of this whole fiasco and just want to play the map, which, not to blow my own horn or anything, is actually pretty decent.

So anyway actually it would be more like 0.001% of the community. Just for argument's sake.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: tomikaze on September 03, 2015, 01:28:07 pm
For the love of god I wanna test this map, can someone please take my money* so that I can play it? Stevie, help me out here bro, don't leave your buddy Tom out in the cold - I want in on this.

*donation of my own free will/not payment
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ramiabdh on September 03, 2015, 01:35:54 pm
Look end of story.
We may not agree/like what stevie did about paying or whatever. Personally, I don't, but it's not our business, I mean did stevie hurt us in anyway. If you say that he did by making his map for money, then I have to say no, this is his business, and he can do whatever he wishes to do and it's his RIGHT btw, and we are not even to question him why( I mean his reasons are his, because it's his business). Believe me, if I were stevie, I would consider doing the same, as it's my right to do so.

The only thing that bothered me is that, this would encourage people to make their maps for money. It's still their business, but I don't see any good future on the forum if this continues, people would not pay, and nothing will be given in a kindhearted manner, all people would become money hungry.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 03, 2015, 01:46:39 pm
Look end of story.
We may not agree/like what stevie did about paying or whatever. Personally, I don't, but it's not our business, I mean did stevie hurt us in anyway. If you say that he did by making his map for money, then I have to say no, this is his business, and he can do whatever he wishes to do and it's his RIGHT btw, and we are not even to question him why( I mean his reasons are his, because it's his business). Believe me, if I were stevie, I would consider doing the same, as it's my right to do so.

The only thing that bothered me is that, this would encourage people to make their maps for money. It's still their business, but I don't see any good future on the forum if this continues, people would not pay, and nothing will be given in a kindhearted manner, all people would become money hungry.
What if activision says he's the reason for no bo3 mod tools  :troll:

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ramiabdh on September 03, 2015, 01:57:22 pm
What if activision says he's the reason for no bo3 mod tools  :troll:
When you say this, I get the feeling that activision searches for whatever reason in the world to not release mod tools, which I think if this is true, happened long time ago, when bo3 itself was an undeveloped idea.

Spoiler: click to open...
Well I personally even never thought that activision release mod tools ever at all
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 03, 2015, 02:04:20 pm
When you say this, I get the feeling that activision searches for whatever reason in the world to not release mod tools, which I think if this is true, happened long time ago, when bo3 itself was an undeveloped idea.

Spoiler: click to open...
Well I personally even never thought that activision release mod tools ever at all
"We'll loose money on dlc, console sales will go down, this man was staring at me funny! No mod tools!"
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 02:15:07 pm
What if activision says he's the reason for no bo3 mod tools  :troll:
Yeh coz BO3 mod tools are really a thing. ::)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 03, 2015, 02:20:07 pm
Yeh coz BO3 mod tools are really a thing. ::)
Ok yea I never thought they would release mod tools for bo3 either
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 03, 2015, 03:34:20 pm
Because Activision releasing mod tools is dictated by Stevie doing a Donation beta. :P
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: e0894ed4 on September 03, 2015, 04:01:18 pm
What's wrong with donations so mapper can buy himself a coffee.  It's just for closed beta obviously, you will get a free map once it's released. This is why I don't even bother mapping..
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 03, 2015, 04:17:49 pm
What's wrong with donations so mapper can buy himself a coffee.  It's just for closed beta obviously, you will get a free map once it's released. This is why I don't even bother mapping..
Even if you mapped you wouldn't have the same problem unless you made people pay for your beta, then you'd why this mess right here

Who's the ugx janitor, we have a oil mess
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversy
Post by: DeletedUser on September 03, 2015, 04:19:41 pm
I said this earlier but people refused to believe it; people rarely donate out of the kindness of their heart alone, you might think 'well if they enjoy the map and there's a donate button people will happily donate' like fuck they will. ;D 99% of people will only 'donate' if they know they are getting something in return. It's a fact.

I donated to UGX-MODS about a year ago out of the kindness of my heart because I thoght it was a good site and I wanted to help out a bit :P And it was not because of the UGX beta that you got if you donated. :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversy
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 04:38:13 pm
I donated to UGX-MODS about a year ago out of the kindness of my heart because I thoght it was a good site and I wanted to help out a bit :P And it was not because of the UGX beta that you got if you donated. :)
So did I. But not many do. If people really believe this then maybe I should ask Trem to show the donation figures before and after Requiem... ::)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: CraftBrewMan on September 03, 2015, 04:46:48 pm
GUYS NO OFFENSE BUT I AM HYPER ANNOYED

Paid for oilrig (donation - no worries)
Finally installed it - no worries pain but works now
Got to loading screen - says unauthorized user.

Being a good respectful user on the forum, tried all the right things.

Tried to open a help desk ticket - system says not right security parameters for password, tried many but no luck.. However system does not even tell you what are the guidelines.  Kill me

Sent an email to general@ugx-mods - no answer or confirmation they even got my mail

Someone on the chat said send a PM to Terminator - guess what i guess since i don't have 20 posts approved i can't use PM yet????  Kill me

I have a paid for copy at waw, followed all the directions... but still can't play this map.

Sorry for venting but this is super frustrating.  I am basically out of options on how to get help from the community
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 03, 2015, 04:53:00 pm

GUYS NO OFFENSE BUT I AM HYPER ANNOYED

Paid for oilrig (donation - no worries)
Finally installed it - no worries pain but works now
Got to loading screen - says unauthorized user.

Being a good respectful user on the forum, tried all the right things.

Tried to open a help desk ticket - system says not right security parameters for password, tried many but no luck.. However system does not even tell you what are the guidelines.  Kill me

Sent an email to general@ugx-mods - no answer or confirmation they even got my mail

Someone on the chat said send a PM to Terminator - guess what i guess since i don't have 20 posts approved i can't use PM yet????  Kill me

I have a paid for copy at waw, followed all the directions... but still can't play this map.

Sorry for venting but this is super frustrating.  I am basically out of options on how to get help from the community

Jira accounts are not associated with forum accounts iirc, so you need to make a new account for it.

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 03, 2015, 05:27:20 pm
Okay this is all I'm going to say. If you want donations. Release the map to the public for FREE and in the map description, ask for a donation if they liked the map. Sure you won't get a lot of donators but people like me who really like the maps would donate. Making zombies maps shouldn't be about donating, it should be about having fun.

Double Post Merge: September 03, 2015, 05:29:40 pm
To add on, I get what you're doing but in the future I would like that to be done.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MZslayer11 on September 03, 2015, 05:31:21 pm
But Trem,
 with the donation we get special inside info on [CENSORED: TOP SECRET] and on the side of getting a rank that would last permanently. We would be recognized by donating for you to get more props for the UGX store and maybe another engine to work on.

With Oil Rig, We would just be donating for a map that will be free in just about a week. Not to mention I'm not paying after the whole "event" between MZ and Stevie, yet He gains the audacity to ask for money from me?

Spoiler: click to open...
Just kidding everyone knows about requiem by now

I still fail to see how that incident effected you in any way. That has nothing to do with this anyway :poker:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: treminaor on September 03, 2015, 05:50:26 pm
GUYS NO OFFENSE BUT I AM HYPER ANNOYED

Paid for oilrig (donation - no worries)
Finally installed it - no worries pain but works now
Got to loading screen - says unauthorized user.

Being a good respectful user on the forum, tried all the right things.

Tried to open a help desk ticket - system says not right security parameters for password, tried many but no luck.. However system does not even tell you what are the guidelines.  Kill me

Sent an email to general@ugx-mods - no answer or confirmation they even got my mail

Someone on the chat said send a PM to Terminator - guess what i guess since i don't have 20 posts approved i can't use PM yet????  Kill me

I have a paid for copy at waw, followed all the directions... but still can't play this map.

Sorry for venting but this is super frustrating.  I am basically out of options on how to get help from the community
First off I'm sorry for how much trouble you've gone to trying to get help, I've been in situations like that before and I know how annoying it is when you can't get a hold of anyone.

I don't have any emails from you in my inbox, and I checked my spam folder. Are you sure you sent it to [email protected]? Also I'm not sure what the password requirements are for Jira, that's Delta's department lol.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Wunderful on September 03, 2015, 06:34:03 pm
GUYS NO OFFENSE BUT I AM HYPER ANNOYED

Paid for oilrig (donation - no worries)
Finally installed it - no worries pain but works now
Got to loading screen - says unauthorized user.

Being a good respectful user on the forum, tried all the right things.

Tried to open a help desk ticket - system says not right security parameters for password, tried many but no luck.. However system does not even tell you what are the guidelines.  Kill me

Sent an email to general@ugx-mods - no answer or confirmation they even got my mail

Someone on the chat said send a PM to Terminator - guess what i guess since i don't have 20 posts approved i can't use PM yet????  Kill me

I have a paid for copy at waw, followed all the directions... but still can't play this map.

Sorry for venting but this is super frustrating.  I am basically out of options on how to get help from the community

Are you sure you can't actually play it?

Cause on mine (and my friend's) we have messages saying unauthorized user covering up the "Solo" and "Cooperative" buttons (even though we paid for the map) but we can still click the buttons and play the map.

Just letting you know that could be your case. Maybe not, idk.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MakeCents on September 03, 2015, 06:42:52 pm

Everyone can play it now. I got the map and put it below for anyone to dl for free:

Spoiler: click to open...
(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faithit.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2Fsike.jpg&hash=a1456cdd727ed9d46d6af155b7ee5a0b4302c891)

Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 03, 2015, 06:55:59 pm
Even if you mapped you wouldn't have the same problem unless you made people pay for your beta, then you'd why this mess right here

Who's the ugx janitor, we have a oil mess
I guess I am. I already got shit all over me anyway.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 03, 2015, 07:00:11 pm
The reason i donated was so that i would get rid of the god awful white name tag. I didn't donate for requiem. i just waanted to get rid of the white name tag thats all. and besides most of the people here who are site mods or chat mods have donated and continue to donate. whats the difference donating to an awesome and talented mapper. if i had money right now i would have donated and not just a basic donation i would have given the full reimbursement of what this community has done for me. and pay at least $30. hell i would by all the tshirts if i had the money.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: elfenliedtopfan5 on September 03, 2015, 07:30:15 pm
Everyone can play it now. I got the map and put it below for anyone to dl for free:

Spoiler: click to open...
(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faithit.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2Fsike.jpg&hash=a1456cdd727ed9d46d6af155b7ee5a0b4302c891)

lol best comment yet
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 03, 2015, 07:35:38 pm
lol best comment yet

oh my god elfenlied the memories.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 03, 2015, 07:37:03 pm
lol best comment yet
Didn't you get banned :troll:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: gr00t on September 03, 2015, 07:47:10 pm

clearly a lot of people are not happy about the prospect of mappers being able to make money back through paid betas, even if the public release will be free.

I think the larger issue here is legal.  Activision's license prohibits revenue generation off of code, textures, models, editors and other copyrights and trademarks associated with the Call of Duty brand, including zombies.

As it stands, the only people making money from CZ are Youtubers and Twitch streamers. Often the mapper doesn't even get so much as a mention, and sometimes even the map name isn't even included, let alone a link. So while some guy who downloads, plays, then uploads the map for 30 mins rakes in the money, while the mapper who spent over a year working on it has to sit there watching them, twiddling their thumbs getting absolutely jack shit.

Clearly, something is wrong here.

This is the only feasible way for a mapper to get rewarded by the audience.

Agree 100%, but selling maps is not legally permitted.  Generating revenue off of videos is tolerated.

The simplest and easiest answer to this paradigm is for skilled Custom Zombies mappers to create a co-operative business.
Start a single custom zombies youtube channel to gain status and popularity,  upload videos, and share the ad revenue.   Have a 1-2 month exclusivity time window for videos on that channel then follow with a public map release. You'll have to figure out what time window works the best.

Only skilled trustworthy mappers are invited to join the co-operative. Trustworthy implies what it means, someone who can be trusted.  You can recruit, but only accept new mappers by a panel vote based on mappers that prove their abilities over time (3+ solid quality maps).

Problems with this approach would be having someone trustworthy handle the money and deciding how to distribute revenue (equal distribution, proportional by map maker's vid)

NGTzombies, your friend Dalek and other shameless promoters will not like this, but it guarantees that the actual content creators (map makers) get a fair shake .  The talking heads will just have to wait or you know they could actually slave away for 6-18 months creating a quality map, but we both know they won't do that.

I saw your one post about having a donation button under each mapper, and I really like that idea, it lets people that can help out their favorite mapper, would love to see this added

I think you should try a dual approach, donations on UGX below mappers avatar, and a youtube co-operate channel with timed exclusive vids before public map release.

this is also exactly my argument, but then I fight back with myself saying "Well aren't I doing this to see the enjoyment and reactions of others?" so Im really on the fence with this, I totally agree but disagree at the same time, so I just kinda keep it to myself :P

I seem to recall a certain youtube channel disrespecting you on a live broadcast mocking your reputation and telling Treyarch to wipe their ass with your resume before discarding it.  They even had the courtesy to leave that in their edited videos on youtube.    Five minutes of disrespect, ten minutes of hounding you for being offended,  and then a non-apology.  The ego on that guy is insane.

With friends like that, you probably need new friends.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 03, 2015, 08:00:04 pm
I seem to recall a certain youtube channel disrespecting you on a live broadcast mocking your reputation and telling Treyarch to wipe their ass with your resume before discarding it.  They even had the courtesy to leave that in their edited videos on youtube.    Five minutes of disrespect, ten minutes of hounding you for being offended,  and then a non-apology.  The ego on that guy is insane.

With friends like that, you probably need new friends.
It was HeXZombies wasn't it? I still have his recording of him bitching out chroma for nothing on my computer somewhere. Everyone knows HeX was, and still is, a little bitch.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: CraftBrewMan on September 03, 2015, 08:06:12 pm
First off I'm sorry for how much trouble you've gone to trying to get help, I've been in situations like that before and I know how annoying it is when you can't get a hold of anyone.

I don't have any emails from you in my inbox, and I checked my spam folder. Are you sure you sent it to [email protected]? Also I'm not sure what the password requirements are for Jira, that's Delta's department lol.

Thank treminaor,  i did check my email was sent to that address - i will try to resend now, but i guess more importantly i did open a help desk ticket successfully just 5 mins back explaining the issue.  Any help anyone can give me would be much appreciated.  Thanks again
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversy
Post by: JiffyNoodles on September 03, 2015, 09:11:15 pm
What do you think funds the making of UGX Mod V.1.1? More than anything, and I'm sure Trem will agree, it's the sheer man hours that is the biggest problem. Sure, you could make a shitty mod/map in a short amount a time, and sure you could try to make it donation only. Like Radi says, is anyone going to pay for that? Of course not, such a lame argument to say 'well everyone is going to do this now'. Since I've been in the scene, I can count about 3 maybe 4 maps that are of the standard that I would happily pay for them. The rest I don't even download when they are free!
I know what is currently funding the UGX-Mods, as I stated earlier, It's the donations, whether out of the generosity of their hearts, or to gain access to UGX Requiem, the money goes directly to UGX-Mods to develop the Mod and Fund the sites preservation. I'm still lost as to what was the point of this. The only annoying point is if this WAS a donation to UGX-Mods and yourself,  why do (or should I say would) donators have to donate once again? I currently have the thought that every 3 out of 4 dollars donated goes straight into your PayPal account (i'm just going off of what Trem said that you get the 'larger portion' of any donation) so one must assume, that this is still a sale of a product, because we give you money, you give us access to your map, nothing else. With UGX, We donate to site, we get donator status, access to a previously blocked portion of the site, as well as gaining access to Requiem.
For example, I donate money to The Guide Dogs Australia charity because I love dogs, and I want the blind people to be able to move about easier with a canine companion. Sometimes, I get entered into a member raffle because I regularly donate to the Charity. This is what UGX Donation status is currently at, give them money, help them prosper, be rewarded in return.
I'm still honestly lost as to what charity I can compare your method of 'Donation' to, because I honestly can't think of a Charity that gives you something in return (unless you count the Queensland Fire Department, because they give out calenders to donators).
Case in Point, I still disagree with this entire 'Paid BETA' stuff, and that we can't simply call this a 'Donation', period.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 09:16:04 pm
Yes perhaps a section only for Oil Rig donators and a title of some sort would appease some people.

But we're basically going round and round and the same people are just repeating the same points over and over. To the point Rollon decided he would repost his 1,000 word essay again just in case anyone missed it the first time, and AOKMikey wrote a 500 word dissertation in which he mentioned he was planning a MUCH longer version in the near future...can't wait for that one. ::)
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 03, 2015, 09:18:04 pm
I say nuke ths topic and everything it stands for!
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 09:19:20 pm
I say nuke ths topic and everything it stands for!
Or we just have BWC spamming random crap because he's likes the attention and can't miss out on a bit of drama...::)
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 03, 2015, 09:20:51 pm
 
Or we just have BWC spamming random crap because he's likes the attention and can't miss out on a bit of drama...::)
Shhhhh me just bored as fuck
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Scobalula on September 03, 2015, 09:22:53 pm
I say if it was Box Plus V3 that had been the paid beta no one would have cared. :(
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: tomikaze on September 03, 2015, 09:28:09 pm
I say if it was Box Plus V3 that had been the paid beta no one would have cared. :(
Because Box Plus V3 sounds like more of a joke than "Ballbags 5: Have a Happy Homeless Holocaust". But don't get me wrong, I donate to play that Ballbags map too.
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 03, 2015, 09:28:29 pm
I say if it was Box Plus V3 that had been the paid beta no one would have cared. :(
Actually I think everyone would have gone even more mad
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 03, 2015, 09:34:36 pm
It was HeXZombies wasn't it? I still have his recording of him bitching out chroma for nothing on my computer somewhere. Everyone knows HeX was, and still is, a little bitch.

Back only a few days and attacked by a keyboard warrior.  :alone:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 09:38:24 pm
Back only a few days and attacked by a keyboard warrior.  :alone:
Actually MAK is quite the warrior IRL too. Just the other day in chat he told me of a violent struggle he had with a bucket and a window and somehow ended up in A&E with a smashed-in head.

For anyone who might be concerned, rest assured, the bucket and window were not harmed.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: tomikaze on September 03, 2015, 09:40:41 pm
Back only a few days and attacked by a keyboard warrior.  :alone:
Oh, um, Oh hey Hex, we were just talking about you...only good things though  :-[
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 03, 2015, 09:47:58 pm
Oh, um, Oh hey Hex, we were just talking about you...only good things though  :-[

I don't care man lol - just kids being kids, that's why I don't come on here much anymore - to much drama over a video game.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 03, 2015, 09:49:17 pm
I don't care man lol - just kids being kids, that's why I don't come on here much anymore - to much drama over a video game.
Yeh agreed.

Spoiler: click to open...
*cough* Chroma *cough*.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: JiffyNoodles on September 03, 2015, 09:52:38 pm
I don't care man lol - just kids being kids, that's why I don't come on here much anymore - to much drama over a video game.
But hex, I Love you, please stay
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeathBringerZen on September 03, 2015, 10:30:47 pm
I don't care man lol - just kids being kids, that's why I don't come on here much anymore - to much drama over a video game.

This guy gets it.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: chromastone10 on September 03, 2015, 10:41:28 pm
Yeh agreed.

*cough* Chroma *cough*.

ya, said he doesnt like drama, right
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SoulTaker on September 03, 2015, 10:52:50 pm
(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2Fk2bvhw.jpg&hash=3e0cc76bee900f319ecb9ea34e843d5d934bab73)

^ Me this entire thread.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MrSlagovich on September 03, 2015, 11:08:35 pm
15 pages? damn seems like i need to put some time aside to read this.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 03, 2015, 11:34:08 pm
Actually MAK is quite the warrior IRL too. Just the other day in chat he told me of a violent struggle he had with a bucket and a window and somehow ended up in A&E with a smashed-in head.

For anyone who might be concerned, rest assured, the bucket and window were not harmed.
I was in a tractor bucket moving a futon into my house through the second floor window and I tripped on the fucking paper thin hard plastic windows have and broke through my chin with the leg of the futon going just above my chin, but not into my mouth. This could've re-broken my jaw from the time I was smashed into a wall by a bull and I was scared out of my mind of that happening. Glad you show some fucking compassion for my injuries.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SoulTaker on September 03, 2015, 11:36:22 pm
I was in a tractor bucket moving a futon into my house through the second floor window and I tripped on the fucking paper thin hard plastic windows have and broke through my chin with the leg of the futon going just above my chin, but not into my mouth. This could've re-broken my jaw from the time I was smashed into a wall by a bull and I was scared out of my mind of that happening. Glad you show some fucking compassion for my injuries.
Everyone hates everyone secretly on this site man... :(
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 12:44:29 am
I was in a tractor bucket moving a futon into my house through the second floor window and I tripped on the fucking paper thin hard plastic windows have and broke through my chin with the leg of the futon going just above my chin, but not into my mouth. This could've re-broken my jaw from the time I was smashed into a wall by a bull and I was scared out of my mind of that happening. Glad you show some fucking compassion for my injuries.
Please tell that story ;D
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 04, 2015, 12:58:16 am
Please tell that story ;D
It was the day after Christmas. We live on a farm so naturally I had to go out to milk cows. Above our milking parlor is where we store feed, but I have to push it down manually into feeders so the cows eat during milking and don't get crazy. I came out about 10 minutes before anyone because I wanted to mess around with a cheat code book I had gotten at Borders (just a perspective on how long ago this was XD). I go out the back door and see the bull. I just shrug him off because he wasn't the crazy type and was causing no trouble. I open the 2 back doors of the parlor to let the cows in and start climbing the iron ladder when the bull gets nuts and smashes my back into the iron ladder, my jaw colliding with the rung in front of me. He proceeded to hit me 2 more times until he walked away. I could feel what I could only assume was the hinge joint to the skull inside my mouth. I climb the fence right next to me to get out of the fenced in area where we keep the cows during milking and make my way to the gates to our yard. My brother comes out and sees me struggling and gets my ass back in the house. By this point, there was blood EVERYWHERE. My face. My clothes. Maybe even some made it on my boots. My mom sees me bleeding from the mouth and assumes I had fallen on the ice (I'm clumsy as hell so not hard to believe). She sees the bone inside my mouth and rushes me to the hospital. After about a hour, I'm in surgery and they put a titanium plate below my jaw to hold it up. Since they never had done it on children before (I was 10 at the time), it obviously fell out of place. The have a second go at it and I wake up about half way through the second surgery in the night. This is where it gets kind of messed up because drugs. I either woke up and they took me back to the surgery prep room or they put me back out and kept working. I'm not sure which. I made it through obviously and get a beautiful scar on the left side of my neck and my left cheek. I can't seem to muster more than a half smile now because of it. Spent 6 weeks recovering and tons of dentistry work to repair my shattered teeth (I still have them in a cup somewhere). I spend that time eating through a straw and hardly being able to get out of bed. If I laughed, I'd pull at the wires they put through my gums to make sure I didn't open my mouth too wide and ruin all the work. My jaw seems to be permanently crooked from the incident and I decided to not get surgery to hide the scars on my face because it's a part of me now that I never want to forget. Happy stevie?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MZslayer11 on September 04, 2015, 01:12:32 am
It was the day after Christmas. We live on a farm so naturally I had to go out to milk cows. Above our milking parlor is where we store feed, but I have to push it down manually into feeders so the cows eat during milking and don't get crazy. I came out about 10 minutes before anyone because I wanted to mess around with a cheat code book I had gotten at Borders (just a perspective on how long ago this was XD). I go out the back door and see the bull. I just shrug him off because he wasn't the crazy type and was causing no trouble. I open the 2 back doors of the parlor to let the cows in and start climbing the iron ladder when the bull gets nuts and smashes my back into the iron ladder, my jaw colliding with the rung in front of me. He proceeded to hit me 2 more times until he walked away. I could feel what I could only assume was the hinge joint to the skull inside my mouth. I climb the fence right next to me to get out of the fenced in area where we keep the cows during milking and make my way to the gates to our yard. My brother comes out and sees me struggling and gets my ass back in the house. By this point, there was blood EVERYWHERE. My face. My clothes. Maybe even some made it on my boots. My mom sees me bleeding from the mouth and assumes I had fallen on the ice (I'm clumsy as hell so not hard to believe). She sees the bone inside my mouth and rushes me to the hospital. After about a hour, I'm in surgery and they put a titanium plate below my jaw to hold it up. Since they never had done it on children before (I was 10 at the time), it obviously fell out of place. The have a second go at it and I wake up about half way through the second surgery in the night. This is where it gets kind of messed up because drugs. I either woke up and they took me back to the surgery prep room or they put me back out and kept working. I'm not sure which. I made it through obviously and get a beautiful scar on the left side of my neck and my left cheek. I can't seem to muster more than a half smile now because of it. Spent 6 weeks recovering and tons of dentistry work to repair my shattered teeth (I still have them in a cup somewhere). I spend that time eating through a straw and hardly being able to get out of bed. If I laughed, I'd pull at the wires they put through my gums to make sure I didn't open my mouth too wide and ruin all the work. My jaw seems to be permanently crooked from the incident and I decided to not get surgery to hide the scars on my face because it's a part of me now that I never want to forget. Happy stevie?

 :mother: This dude has been through some shit...
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 01:14:44 am
It was the day after Christmas. We live on a farm so naturally I had to go out to milk cows. Above our milking parlor is where we store feed, but I have to push it down manually into feeders so the cows eat during milking and don't get crazy. I came out about 10 minutes before anyone because I wanted to mess around with a cheat code book I had gotten at Borders (just a perspective on how long ago this was XD). I go out the back door and see the bull. I just shrug him off because he wasn't the crazy type and was causing no trouble. I open the 2 back doors of the parlor to let the cows in and start climbing the iron ladder when the bull gets nuts and smashes my back into the iron ladder, my jaw colliding with the rung in front of me. He proceeded to hit me 2 more times until he walked away. I could feel what I could only assume was the hinge joint to the skull inside my mouth. I climb the fence right next to me to get out of the fenced in area where we keep the cows during milking and make my way to the gates to our yard. My brother comes out and sees me struggling and gets my ass back in the house. By this point, there was blood EVERYWHERE. My face. My clothes. Maybe even some made it on my boots. My mom sees me bleeding from the mouth and assumes I had fallen on the ice (I'm clumsy as hell so not hard to believe). She sees the bone inside my mouth and rushes me to the hospital. After about a hour, I'm in surgery and they put a titanium plate below my jaw to hold it up. Since they never had done it on children before (I was 10 at the time), it obviously fell out of place. The have a second go at it and I wake up about half way through the second surgery in the night. This is where it gets kind of messed up because drugs. I either woke up and they took me back to the surgery prep room or they put me back out and kept working. I'm not sure which. I made it through obviously and get a beautiful scar on the left side of my neck and my left cheek. I can't seem to muster more than a half smile now because of it. Spent 6 weeks recovering and tons of dentistry work to repair my shattered teeth (I still have them in a cup somewhere). I spend that time eating through a straw and hardly being able to get out of bed. If I laughed, I'd pull at the wires they put through my gums to make sure I didn't open my mouth too wide and ruin all the work. My jaw seems to be permanently crooked from the incident and I decided to not get surgery to hide the scars on my face because it's a part of me now that I never want to forget. Happy stevie?

Well that was a far more depressing story than I anticipated. I was expecting something like this :-\-

https://youtu.be/SeUFgPnQYMU?t=26s
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: tomikaze on September 04, 2015, 01:20:48 am
It was the day after Christmas... I decided to not get surgery to hide the scars on my face because it's a part of me now that I never want to forget. Happy stevie?
Yea, that is not funny at all. Can we please be friends now? Stevie and MAK - let's hug it out!

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FXK5Xm6V.jpg%3F1&hash=fd82d94103996a105d794771d0851b1b9f045d8e)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 04, 2015, 01:25:55 am
Yea, that is not funny at all. Can we please be friends now? Stevie and MAK - let's hug it out!

(http://i.imgur.com/XK5Xm6V.jpg?1)
I doubt we could ever be friends after all the fights. The only thing I think we can agree on is that every map, however crappy or good it is, should be creative as possible and you should be as creative as you can be with what you got. In that case, I'll give stevie one thing: I do like the EMP nova crawlers from Oil Rig and how they were used with the EE. That I did like.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 01:31:16 am
I doubt we could ever be friends after all the fights. The only thing I think we can agree on is that every map, however crappy or good it is, should be creative as possible and you should be as creative as you can be with what you got. In that case, I'll give stevie one thing: I do like the EMP nova crawlers from Oil Rig and how they were used with the EE. That I did like.
Well thankyou MAK, and I like your, er, profile pic. :)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 04, 2015, 01:59:49 am
Well thankyou MAK, and I like your, er, profile pic. :)
Don't bother trying to come up with things. I haven't shown completely publicly any of my stuff, but Rainy Death and Project Contamination are due to feature some of my work, although, not my best work. Just simple powerups and stuff.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: moonmaster1 on September 04, 2015, 02:27:07 am
I have donated to UGX a few times. I do like the all the tech oddities they are working on and hope in the long run it can IMPROVE our gaming experience despite World At War being released almost 7 years ago.

That said, I am thankful the UGX staff caters to a level of transparency when it comes to money. In other communities such as Rom Hacking or Mugen, users will not accept or ask for money to help towards their projects and they shouldn't. Not their code. Simple as that.

UGX asking for funds to keep their servers up and pursue outside projects such as UGX Play and the new chatroom?
Its all good.  :)

I'm sure that has been pointed out pages ago, but that is my stance on things.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: RadimaX on September 04, 2015, 04:21:49 am
It was the day after Christmas. We live on a farm so naturally I had to go out to milk cows. Above our milking parlor is where we store feed, but I have to push it down manually into feeders so the cows eat during milking and don't get crazy. I came out about 10 minutes before anyone because I wanted to mess around with a cheat code book I had gotten at Borders (just a perspective on how long ago this was XD). I go out the back door and see the bull. I just shrug him off because he wasn't the crazy type and was causing no trouble. I open the 2 back doors of the parlor to let the cows in and start climbing the iron ladder when the bull gets nuts and smashes my back into the iron ladder, my jaw colliding with the rung in front of me. He proceeded to hit me 2 more times until he walked away. I could feel what I could only assume was the hinge joint to the skull inside my mouth. I climb the fence right next to me to get out of the fenced in area where we keep the cows during milking and make my way to the gates to our yard. My brother comes out and sees me struggling and gets my ass back in the house. By this point, there was blood EVERYWHERE. My face. My clothes. Maybe even some made it on my boots. My mom sees me bleeding from the mouth and assumes I had fallen on the ice (I'm clumsy as hell so not hard to believe). She sees the bone inside my mouth and rushes me to the hospital. After about a hour, I'm in surgery and they put a titanium plate below my jaw to hold it up. Since they never had done it on children before (I was 10 at the time), it obviously fell out of place. The have a second go at it and I wake up about half way through the second surgery in the night. This is where it gets kind of messed up because drugs. I either woke up and they took me back to the surgery prep room or they put me back out and kept working. I'm not sure which. I made it through obviously and get a beautiful scar on the left side of my neck and my left cheek. I can't seem to muster more than a half smile now because of it. Spent 6 weeks recovering and tons of dentistry work to repair my shattered teeth (I still have them in a cup somewhere). I spend that time eating through a straw and hardly being able to get out of bed. If I laughed, I'd pull at the wires they put through my gums to make sure I didn't open my mouth too wide and ruin all the work. My jaw seems to be permanently crooked from the incident and I decided to not get surgery to hide the scars on my face because it's a part of me now that I never want to forget.

wanna know whats more depressing? i never played MOTD or BURIED or MOON while being a community mapper since 2012 and still not own a copy of cod waw and play on friends account while others pile up dough for unreleased maps and unreleased tools trlolol its all good m8
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 04, 2015, 04:24:23 am
wanna know whats more depressing MAK? being a community mapper since 2012 and still not own a copy of cod waw so i play on tombmx account while others pile up the supposed dough for unreleased maps and unreleased tools  :lol: also never played MOTD or BURIED
Get out. Get out now. You are no longer welcome here.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: RadimaX on September 04, 2015, 04:28:21 am
Get out. Get out now. You are no longer welcome here.

thanks am i joining the banned elite club already did not even come to the sad part about my story yet mak...
(https://i.imgur.com/nBJi3pT.png)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: archmeister94 on September 04, 2015, 07:12:33 am
First of all NO ONE would even concider donating to someone making a shitty BOXMAP BETA lol so there is no slips or slopes then again if you make even half as decent map as oilrig then maby you should be on the first page on ugx :P but lets stop speculating and get real since i doubt you will make something like oilrig anyways there is no need for this hypothetical discussion. However if you DO it then welcome back 2016-2017 when your map is up to snuff and we can talk about it then...

I'm not asking people to donate to my map nor will I ever, I make maps because I like to, even if its the best map ever or the shittest, MY MAPS ARE FREE.  You missed  my point completely lol, why does HE get to make a map and charge for beta, yet me or any other person on this site don't.  I'm completely against donation betas because if one person does it, then everyone will, which in turn will ruin CZ.  Also why are you changing the subject to my mapping skills, is it because you don't have a good enough answer to my question?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Delta on September 04, 2015, 09:05:38 am
While we are still thinking about a solution and analyze what exactly went wrong etc. we really hoped we could push here a discussion about that topic.

Apparently as usual in this community there are these who are against anything, and ignoring reasons nor want to find a better solution (and then give us additional trouble, personal thank you - now I can work my ass 48 hours of a day)

[IMHO] part now

What we see here is the classic bullshit which I'm so tired of.
Off topic crap, life stories which (as sad they are) are totally unneeded here, mapping skills and thinks like
"OH I wouldn't charge - but if one starts -> everyone would"

I was hoping to get some valid arguments. A pro and con side, objectively based.
But yeah stupid me - that community is full of emotions, mostly hate against this and that or a person.

One thing which I appreciate was that Mr. X would then make something out of it, although he had help by Mr. Y and Z.
Thats something I used against the YAW map only things, but totally did not consider here.

Our main goal was to give mappers something of the cake as well.
(and my personal interest in developing a system)
I know many do this for FUN and their hobby. So did I.
If you don't want money, thats your choice. And no matter why, it doesn't mean that everyone should act like you.

I totally agree with that mods should be free. It would be a disaster otherwise.
But thats not the point - as it still would be free soon or later.

It seems like the forced way is not an option. (Although it went fine with Comosea and Requiem)
I hope we come up with a solution which works for those who dislike the current approach (and I exclude these people, who screamed loud)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 04, 2015, 12:39:06 pm
While we are still thinking about a solution and analyze what exactly went wrong etc. we really hoped we could push here a discussion about that topic.

Apparently as usual in this community there are these who are against anything, and ignoring reasons nor want to find a better solution (and then give us additional trouble, personal thank you - now I can work my ass 48 hours of a day)

[IMHO] part now

What we see here is the classic bullshit which I'm so tired of.
Off topic crap, life stories which (as sad they are) are totally unneeded here, mapping skills and thinks like
"OH I wouldn't charge - but if one starts -> everyone would"

I was hoping to get some valid arguments. A pro and con side, objectively based.
But yeah stupid me - that community is full of emotions, mostly hate against this and that or a person.

One thing which I appreciate was that Mr. X would then make something out of it, although he had help by Mr. Y and Z.
Thats something I used against the YAW map only things, but totally did not consider here.

Our main goal was to give mappers something of the cake as well.
(and my personal interest in developing a system)
I know many do this for FUN and their hobby. So did I.
If you don't want money, thats your choice. And no matter why, it doesn't mean that everyone should act like you.

I totally agree with that mods should be free. It would be a disaster otherwise.
But thats not the point - as it still would be free soon or later.

It seems like the forced way is not an option. (Although it went fine with Comosea and Requiem)
I hope we come up with a solution which works for those who dislike the current approach (and I exclude these people, who screamed loud)
You want pros and cons? Fine. I'll try my best.
PROS:
Mapper makes something back for his time. Mappers do deserve some sort of compensation.
Money could go towards other games that might inspire mapper.
Money goes to the site for hosting - VERY big deal. It's not cheap to run a server and I wouldn't doubt ugx has slow months so that'd fix any backed up payments.
Completely optional. You don't HAVE to get the map early.
People will want to make more maps. It's just making money in spare time.
CONS:
We aren't positive a full release will EVER come out. MAJOR ISSUE. It'd be tough luck for anyone that didn't want to pay.
Everyone might try paid betas then. MAJOR ISSUE. No maps will be free anymore and you wouldn't be able to have a fun night with some friends without opening up PayPal.
Rushing maps. People might try to put our maps like factories with no regard to detail or bug fixing because money.
Nothing more than getting a map. Now, this one confuses me. People complain they're only getting a map for $4, but that's pretty much what zombies fans do when Treyarch makes a map. I mean, you pay $15 for MOTD DLC just for MOTD and you never play MP? Well, that's the same case here, but less bullshitting around.

The only way I personally see this system working is if UGX sets up a PayPal system where the "donated" money goes into a PayPal, but the mapper doesn't have access to it until the full release of the map. More importantly, on the site, it should feature a donation count so the mapper knows if some administration were dipping their hands in the cookie jar. This is probably the only way to guarantee as many of the issues will be solved as possible.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Delta on September 04, 2015, 01:09:25 pm
We could force the release any time.
But the argument that the mapper tries to delay it etc is a valid point.
But it's untrue that maps won't be free anymore. They would just take longer.
(but I do understand the issue behind it - also not every map would take this approach)
We made sure the map follows a certain quality.
I highly doubt that box maps would be in this system.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 04, 2015, 01:16:17 pm
We could force the release any time.
But the argument that the mapper tries to delay it etc is a valid point.
But it's untrue that maps won't be free anymore. They would just take longer.
(but I do understand the issue behind it - also not every map would take this approach)
We made sure the map follows a certain quality.
I highly doubt that box maps would be in this system.
What about getting paid only after the release?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Rorke on September 04, 2015, 01:21:07 pm
We could force the release any time.
But the argument that the mapper tries to delay it etc is a valid point.
But it's untrue that maps won't be free anymore. They would just take longer.
(but I do understand the issue behind it - also not every map would take this approach)
We made sure the map follows a certain quality.
I highly doubt that box maps would be in this system.

"you could force the release any time" no technically speaking you carnt unless you hack the pc that has the files

"But it's untrue that maps won't be free anymore" people do go through episodes where they release a BETA but never release the full version this would just make it happen even more

"also not every map would take this approach" this is a very good way to get people to do more stuff with there maps instead of just not giving a crap about it

"We made sure the map follows a certain quality." this "quality" must be extremily high higher than what it is to get ur map on the manager

"I highly doubt that box maps would be in this system." if a box map carnt get on the map manager or even on the forums without hate what makes you even think its going to be a "payed for BETA?" my opions thats ONLY what it is. also this can be highly mistaken for "pay for play"
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 04, 2015, 01:26:25 pm
"you could force the release any time" no technically speaking you carnt unless you hack the pc that has the files
They would just release it at its stage, since it's already on there site being a paid beta, they'd just change that to free if needed
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Rorke on September 04, 2015, 01:28:05 pm
They would just release it at its stage, since it's already on there site being a paid beta, they'd just change that to free if needed
too late by them the mapper will have already recived money for it
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: tomikaze on September 04, 2015, 01:29:59 pm
I think it's pretty easy to tell a map that is worth paying for: The Swan, UGX Requiem, Leviathan, Oil Rig, Dead Ship, HoboVille and probably a few more here.

This would be something that a prospective mapper would have to discuss with the UGX team and prove to them that their map is worth doing a donation for beta. Not every maps should be worth this, if you wanna try to do this on your own website with your latest box map then fine, but it won't fly here on UGX & you all know how UGX values quality so you know you won't screwed over. (Again - no one has to donate - waiting for full release is an option)

Also, UGX should mandate that the mapper release his map to the public for free within 3-6 months so that this isn't drawn out for years.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Rorke on September 04, 2015, 01:33:35 pm
I think it's pretty easy to tell a map that is worth paying for: The Swan, UGX Requiem, Leviathan, Oil Rig, Dead Ship, HoboVille and probably a few more here.

This would be something that a prospective mapper would have to discuss with the UGX team and prove to them that their map is worth doing a donation for beta. Not every maps should be worth this, if you wanna try to do this on your own website with your latest box map then fine, but it won't fly here on UGX & you all know how UGX values quality so you know you won't screwed over. (Again - no one has to donate - waiting for full release is an option)

Also, UGX should mandate that the mapper release his map to the public for free within 3-6 months so that this isn't drawn out for years.
i fully comprehend this. but lets say they were doing this for long term, ok lets start off by discussing the REAL issues and problems that will arise i mean come on money is involved no1 is going to say no to a few bob, but it would be a lot better if they gave the option to all current ugx mappers that have held the mapper stats for 2 to 4 months before giving the mapper the choice if he wants his/her map to be a payed for beta
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 02:10:22 pm
I think it's pretty easy to tell a map that is worth paying for: The Swan, UGX Requiem, Leviathan, Oil Rig, Dead Ship, HoboVille and probably a few more here.

This would be something that a prospective mapper would have to discuss with the UGX team and prove to them that their map is worth doing a donation for beta. Not every maps should be worth this, if you wanna try to do this on your own website with your latest box map then fine, but it won't fly here on UGX & you all know how UGX values quality so you know you won't screwed over. (Again - no one has to donate - waiting for full release is an option)

Also, UGX should mandate that the mapper release his map to the public for free within 3-6 months so that this isn't drawn out for years.
Exactly.

The argument that EVERYONE will be doing this is just ridiculous and lazy. There are only a handful of maps worthy of donating for, of course UGX won't go to the trouble of hosting and setting up 'ReBoxified: The Opening' because, guess what, no-one would pay for it!!! But, if they really wanted to, I would have no issue with them doing that, regardless of the quality of the map.

CONS:
We aren't positive a full release will EVER come out. MAJOR ISSUE. It'd be tough luck for anyone that didn't want to pay.
Everyone might try paid betas then. MAJOR ISSUE. No maps will be free anymore and you wouldn't be able to have a fun night with some friends without opening up PayPal.
Rushing maps. People might try to put our maps like factories with no regard to detail or bug fixing because money.
Nothing more than getting a map. Now, this one confuses me. People complain they're only getting a map for $4, but that's pretty much what zombies fans do when Treyarch makes a map. I mean, you pay $15 for MOTD DLC just for MOTD and you never play MP? Well, that's the same case here, but less bullshitting around.
In answer to these points, to the people whining 'well the beta will go on forever in this case', well no, there will be a set release date for 2 months time, so no matter what the map will be released then.

And to the rushing part, yes I really rushed through this map, barely added anything, just wanted it done so I could get some money. It's not like I spent a year working on it or anything.

And if you don't think it's worth $4, then by all means you're within your rights to keep your money, personally I think $4 for a custom map that I will really enjoy is not much at all.

I'm honestly not seeing many real valid arguments coming from the other side. Some of the more reasonable people have made some good suggestions on how to refine the process though, with a few amendments to minor details; adding a countdown to official release, providing a little something extra for donators, etc, I don't really see much opposition towards it, apart from the obvious loud mouths who just want to rant and hate for the sake of it. ::)

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: RadimaX on September 04, 2015, 02:13:10 pm
I'm not asking people to donate to my map nor will I ever but why does HE get to make a map and charge for beta. Also why are you changing the subject to my mapping skills

HE gets to make map? lol anyone can make map, even you instead of whining on forums but because his map is propably better then yours thats why HE gets to do it and why his map is on the frontpage. If you dont want to help other mappers out why would mappers help you? keep releasing the "not best and not worst maps" of yours and everyone is happy, its not like people go beg for donations ZERO people can do it, or EVERYONE can do it since its OPTIONAL.
Stevie did not knock on your door asking for handout for a map you never herd about am i right? maby you never want to play it in the first place so stop whining HE this or HE that lol.

i explained why it wont be slippery slope the last time, and in order to do so i had to bring up mapping skills so it was not a change of subject but explanation. if you have no skill no one gonna ask you for a beta let alone the the release or want to donate for it so like Delta said maps have a certain standard if you dont like the map dont play it, make your own even better map instead
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: dotexe on September 04, 2015, 03:47:46 pm
Some people do charity work more work for money it's the way of the world deal with it.
With whats going on in the world is this really that impotant..no  so lets get some perspective  :-\

Double Post Merge: September 04, 2015, 04:10:50 pm
If someone wants to earn some money doing what he or she can do let them, i worked from the age of 16 and i retired at 40 and live a good life and do some charity work ...so what do you want out of life you only have one!
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: thezombieproject on September 04, 2015, 04:38:06 pm
nearly 18 pages of getting nowhere. this could have all been avoided if done the right way
shit you guys can go back and forth for days and still not agree.

You have to think of the pros and cons and then come to an agreement on what is best for the community this is not about one person.

The best way to go about this the fair and respectable way to go about it is to VOTE!
You guys have had your debate now put it to a vote.

Now no matter the outcome people cant say shit cause the final decision was made by the community.

I would make a poll but i dont think its my place to so all i can do is give the idea.

(note: i think no matter what  the ugx site should profit cause it cost money to run this site. When it comes to mappers profiting put it to a vote if people cant agree)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Bwc66930 on September 04, 2015, 04:40:22 pm
nearly 18 pages of getting nowhere
I have 11 pages :troll:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: thezombieproject on September 04, 2015, 05:01:18 pm
I have 11 pages :troll:
your stupid lol :D
i do got nearly 18 though :P
but who gives anyway.  8)

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ege115 on September 04, 2015, 05:19:16 pm
Can't we just stick to how releasing maps worked before? Was there a problem with how it was before? Because I see no reason to even try to make "map donating system" work better.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: dotexe on September 04, 2015, 05:21:49 pm
Things move on.. :nyan:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 04, 2015, 05:45:04 pm
Don't bother trying to come up with things. I haven't shown completely publicly any of my stuff, but Rainy Death and Project Contamination are due to feature some of my work, although, not my best work. Just simple powerups and stuff.

i love kil la kill.

by the way i had a similar incident though its a bit gruesome... so i won't mention it.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: dazzibhoy1 on September 04, 2015, 06:46:43 pm
the maps prob finished anyway lol :troll:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ping998 on September 04, 2015, 06:49:00 pm
I don't mind the idea of a paid beta, as long as the finished product is free.

I DO NOT support paid maps what-so-ever and I believe this should NEVER happen! What I do support though, is the idea that anyone can donate freely to a mapper. Think about it, people earn quite a bit of money for just playing your map on YouTube for an hour yet you earn nothing for spending months making it. It seems unfair. I 110% agree with the idea of a large donate button under the name of the user (Something like: "DONATE TO THIS MAPPER"). Not only will it give mappers the credit they deserve, it will also encourage them to make bigger and better maps free for the community!
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 07:05:22 pm
I don't mind the idea of a paid beta, as long as the finished product is free.

It is, it would be released publicly 2 months after the beta.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 07:15:52 pm
It is, it would be released publicly 2 months after the beta.

Two whole months?   :o
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 07:21:27 pm
Two whole months?   :o
So after waiting more than a year people can't wait another 2 months for the sake of $4?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 07:29:49 pm
So after waiting more than a year people can't wait another 2 months for the sake of $4?

You shouldn't be charging money for it to begin with. Not yours for reasons above.

I'd give more reasons but on a tablet again.

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 04, 2015, 07:32:22 pm
It is, it would be released publicly 2 months after the beta.

two whole months jesus christ that's excessive.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: JWofle on September 04, 2015, 07:47:02 pm
Where do I sign up, I have an upcoming map that I want to make money from  :poker:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: tomikaze on September 04, 2015, 07:47:43 pm
I'd give more reasons but on a tablet again.
Nope, nope, that's fine, we've heard the speeches already. I love you like a son Daedra, but the powers that be don't agree with you and we've heard it all before.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Naxi on September 04, 2015, 07:49:25 pm
To be honest, this donation thing is getting out of hand, and is coming off as very unprofessional for a 'Custom Zombies' community. This community is great, and I joined for that reason, but donations? I can see people donating to others to make requested maps, but to donate to someone's self made map that they made purely out of fun deserves money? Donating to mods of an already existing video game is absurd; nobody does this, because it's completely illegal. People who make mods do it for fun, and for others to experience, free of charge. Asking for money to play a mod is blatantly stupid, and will send this site to the grave instantly, especially with people reporting the site to Activision on the matter.

Now, I can see having a donate button for the mappers and programmers for their hard work, since a lot of independent modders do this to show that it can help inspire them become better with the things they do. However, if this is about paying to play a map, that's just idiotic, and sounds like something a child would think up and do.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 07:51:19 pm
two whole months jesus christ that's excessive.
Have you played Requiem? How long has that been in Beta?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: whippytrout on September 04, 2015, 07:58:11 pm
I can see where both sides are coming from but take a second and remember the disaster that happened with Skyrim trying to implement the Steam Workshop feature that let people charge for their Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim mods. People went ballistic over it and it was removed within a few days. lol

That's my two cents  ;)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: tomikaze on September 04, 2015, 08:02:26 pm
How about this? When a mapper starts a WIP he may contact someone at UGX (sure, I'll be the guy for this, thank you for asking) and he will assess the project and if it gets approved then the person or team can be given a donate button on their WIP so that people can donate to a mapper and it will in no way be viewed as paying for content since the money changing hands will not coincide with the release of the map. I'd be glad to invest in a project that I believe in. Will this proposal satisfy the douche bags out there? Speak douche bags!
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: JWofle on September 04, 2015, 08:10:14 pm
Why would you pay for a WIP but not a release, I don't get it :S
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: timelordalex on September 04, 2015, 08:32:50 pm
The swan? Worth paying for?!  :0
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 08:34:38 pm
The swan? Worth paying for?!  :0
Not everyone plays on a potato Alex...::)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 04, 2015, 08:35:15 pm
It was HeXZombies wasn't it? I still have his recording of him bitching out chroma for nothing on my computer somewhere. Everyone knows HeX was, and still is, a little bitch.
Hex Zombies, not HeX - thank you very much...
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: adfgdagasdf2 on September 04, 2015, 09:44:21 pm
The only problem I see with paid beta is that, if the map is not up to expectations whatsoever, there's no refunds for a map you just purchased and hated. It could very well completely fuck the reputation of CZ as a money-grabbing conglomerate, especially since the popularity on paid mods is already way in the negatives.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Nathiri on September 04, 2015, 10:03:33 pm
How about this? When a mapper starts a WIP he may contact someone at UGX (sure, I'll be the guy for this, thank you for asking) and he will assess the project and if it gets approved then the person or team can be given a donate button on their WIP so that people can donate to a mapper and it will in no way be viewed as paying for content since the money changing hands will not coincide with the release of the map. I'd be glad to invest in a project that I believe in. Will this proposal satisfy the douche bags out there? Speak douche bags!


No need to insult people who have put forward some valid arguments.

Only problem with this proposal is what happens if the WIP is cancelled by the mapper? The WIP would have to be well on its way into development to show that it will be completed. Otherwise sounds fine.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 10:06:26 pm
Nope, nope, that's fine, we've heard the speeches already. I love you like a son Daedra, but the powers that be don't agree with you and we've heard it all before.

So according to "the powers that be", Treyarch(Activision) doesn't own the content they produce.  K then, wish i knew that earlier, would have ripped all of the assets from BO2 and made my own game using them called: Duty of Calls: White Ops and sold beta access for $4. They wouldn't mind, right? Not like they own the rights to it, atleast according to "the powers that be".

Edit: Actually, Treyarch(Activision) doesn't even own the rights to Call of Duty. So i can just make a new call of duty game AND decompile the engine, modify, sell it, etc.


Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 10:16:43 pm
So according to "the powers that be", Treyarch(Activision) doesn't own the content they produce.  K then, wish i knew that earlier, would have ripped all of the assets from BO2 and made my own game using them called: Duty of Calls: White Ops and sold beta access for $4. They wouldn't mind, right? Not like they own the rights to it, atleast according to "the powers that be".

Edit: Actually, Treyarch(Activision) doesn't even own the rights to Call of Duty. So i can just make a new call of duty game AND decompile the engine, modify, sell it, etc.
omg DD who gives a crap honestly

If you dont wanna pay then dont

If you dont wanna play then dont

if you wanna play, but dont wanna pay then "WAIT" till it "becomes" free

Quote
No need to insult people who have put forward some valid arguments.

Only problem with this proposal is what happens if the WIP is cancelled by the mapper? The WIP would have to be well on its way into development to show that it will be completed. Otherwise sounds fine.

your not supporting the "map" your supporting the "mapper"
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Nathiri on September 04, 2015, 10:17:58 pm
Its not about dont want to pay to play.

Its about whether if this can be done legally.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 10:19:11 pm
Its not about dont want to pay to play.

Its about whether if this can be done legally.
who CARES

I dont, im sure activision dont, only people that do are the ones who - shockingly - would need to pay "AT THE MOMENT"

or learn some patience
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Nathiri on September 04, 2015, 10:21:52 pm
I'm fine with the paid beta or paid early access myself, I'm just not sure about the repercussions that could follow.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 10:22:25 pm
your not supporting the "map" your supporting the "mapper"
If you want to support the mapper then don't connect the donation to the map. Just put a donate button on the map topic.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 10:23:30 pm
I'm fine with the paid beta or paid early access myself, I'm just not sure about the repurcussions that could follow.
there will be none

just like there have never been any for anything else thats exactly the same as this

Its a "donation", that "donation" is rewarded by giving you early access

companies have been doing this for years

example, cant sell alchol past a certain time? Fine, sell food, and give the alcohol as a "free bonus"

LEGAL

Double Post Merge: September 04, 2015, 10:24:09 pm
If you want to support the mapper then don't connect the donation to the map. Just put a donate button on the map topic.
we never suggested that in the first place, we suggested adding the button to your profile
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Nathiri on September 04, 2015, 10:26:45 pm
Companies yes, but Modders?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 10:27:50 pm
omg DD who gives a crap honestly

A lot of people, apparently. Otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in the first place.

Quote
I dont, im sure activision dont

You think Activision doesn't care that people are making money off of their content?  :o

Maybe i should hit them up on twitter and find out...

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 10:28:00 pm
Companies yes, but Modders?
yes modders

thousands of times to my knowledge

theres no difference between company or personal for "donations"

which is the word everyone is choosing to ignore

Quote
A lot of people, apparently. Otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion in the first place.

Yes, and MUCH to my "surprise", it was majority of people who want it but dont wanna pay, or CONSTANTLY complain about EVERYTHING or the kids who dont have money...

Quote
Maybe i should hit them up on twitter and find out...

very mature, why am i not surprised

but please do, go right ahead and watch the multi million dollar company show absolutely no interest
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 10:30:49 pm
very mature, why am i not surprised

Why isn't it mature?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 10:32:29 pm
the first place, we suggested adding the button to your profile
That would work to.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 10:33:32 pm
you have no idea what your talking about

stealing the engine, reverse engineering things that your not already legally allowed to do, or "copyright" - as in stealing assets and using them in other programs - is what you get a C&D for

and thats up to them, not you guys

like Chrono trigger Ressurection. And that is literally the ONLY time ive heard of this happening, and the quality alone explained why, along with all copyright characters, locations, songs, story, etc

Quote
Why isn't it mature?

Quote
and I'm also very disappointed in anyone who was low enough to report the website to Activision on Twitter or otherwise - keep your business here with us if you want the community to survive as a whole.

Because all you do is complain and cause trouble over trivial matters that in the long run, dont matter

when your not doing that your criticising people for not wanting people changing their mods, or complaining that the "script is shit" after diving through IWDs - or "most" people in this community are "shit", or going on a brand new release just to layer on complaint after complaint and basically end with "dont quit your day job"

and in response you want to attack the community for trying to raise money to reward hard work and maintain the site. THATS why its immature - IM TELLING MOM
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 10:37:35 pm
Instead of making this topic, we could all just read this: http://www.activision.com/legal/terms-of-use (http://www.activision.com/legal/terms-of-use)
 ::)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 10:38:23 pm
but please do, go right ahead and watch the multi million dollar company show absolutely no interest
Actually they're probably multi-billion I think? And I think they're slightly busy atm with a little thing called BO3, and probably don't give 2 shits about the goings on of a 7 y/o game. Just like Requiem, and Comosea, and COD4, etc.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: smasher248 on September 04, 2015, 10:38:38 pm
Instead of making this topic, we could all just read this: http://www.activision.com/legal/terms-of-use (http://www.activision.com/legal/terms-of-use)
 ::)

wow really?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 10:39:18 pm
wow really?
Yes. It works ;)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 10:45:32 pm
Because all you do is complain and cause trouble over trivial matters that in the long run, dont matter

and in response you want to attack the community for trying to raise money to reward hard work and maintain the site. THATS why its immature - IM TELLING MOM

What one perceives to be trivial is entirely up the individual person. To me and other people this is obviously a big deal.

I have no problem with a donate button being added to the profile. I think its a great idea.

As for the whole "i'm telling mom" thing. You guys said it yourself that its 100% legal and its OK for you to do it, so why is it a big deal?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 10:45:47 pm
Actually they're probably multi-billion I think? And I think they're slightly busy atm with a little thing called BO3, and probably don't give 2 shits about the goings on of a 7 y/o game. Just like Requiem, and Comosea, and COD4, etc.

Companies have little to no interest in this stuff anyway

especially when those same companies release the tools to do it, and support us with what 7 updates to the mod tools? And partial support for modding the next game?

lol, Honestly ive heard of C&D happening like once or twice, and only for HUGE projects that are practically remaking games, with teams, to the highest and most professional quality, stealing almost all copyrighted material

This whole debacle is just childish, in a few weeks itll blow over

then you watch, everyone will start doing this... I can see it coming a mile away

What people should at least "TRY" to remember, is it WILL BE FREE

Stevie had to upgrade all his shit a while ago, so you ARE SUPPORTING THE MAPPER

we dont "deserve" money for what we do, but if you need better equipment to continue, you tend to try to raise a "little bit" of cash to support that

I fix xboxes, I "shouldnt expect" paying for them, yet people pay me.

Double Post Merge: September 04, 2015, 10:46:22 pm
What one perceives to be trivial is entirely up the individual person. To me and other people this is obviously a big deal.

I have no problem with a donate button being added to the profile. I think its a great idea.

As for the whole "i'm telling mom" thing. You guys said it yourself that its 100% legal and its OK for you to do it, so why is it a big deal?
erm, coz you ASKED why its childish?

Do i really need to remind you of your own words?

stop your constant moaning and criticising

ALWAYS MOANING

can garuntee - could it start a argument? Yes - then DD will be there

Could it be coded better? - DD will be there

Does it have a IWD - DD will be there

Is it unoriginal? DD will be there

Is it not COD 5 stock stuff? - DD WILL BE THERE

Is it well made, maintained, helpful to the community, fun and original? No sign of DD anywhere

you see the pattern?

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 04, 2015, 10:51:32 pm
People just want something for nothing. They have no comprehension of the work required to make maps on this scale. It just takes so long, maps like this, Leviathan, Herrenhaus, etc. are just one offs, the mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return. I know for sure I will never make a map this large and ambitious again, I know the Leviathan team feel the same, most of the talented people make 1 or 2 maps and just move on. It's just way too time-consuming and isn't worth it.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 10:52:15 pm
People just want something for nothing. They have no comprehension of the work required to make maps on this scale. It just takes so long, maps like this, Leviathan, Herrenhaus, etc. are just one offs, the mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return. I know for sure I will never make a map this large and ambitious again, I know the Leviathan team feel the same, most of the talented people make or 2 maps and just move on. It's just way too time-consuming and isn't worth it.
dude, its not even their business anyway

same as with any paid service - which this isnt even a paid service, its a DONATION - , if your against it, dont pay. Simple

Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Nathiri on September 04, 2015, 10:52:44 pm
you have no idea what your talking about

stealing the engine, reverse engineering things that your not already legally allowed to do, or "copyright" - as in stealing assets and using them in other programs - is what you get a C&D for

and thats up to them, not you guys

like Chrono trigger Ressurection. And that is literally the ONLY time ive heard of this happening, and the quality alone explained why, along with all copyright characters, locations, songs, story, etc


Alright. You have replied and defended the issue fine. I wont continue any more discussion.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 10:55:07 pm
People just want something for nothing. They have no comprehension of the work required to make maps on this scale. It just takes so long, maps like this, Leviathan, Herrenhaus, etc. are just one offs, the mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return. I know for sure I will never make a map this large and ambitious again, I know the Leviathan team feel the same, most of the talented people make 1 or 2 maps and just move on. It's just way too time-consuming and isn't worth it.
I thought the whole point of making custom zombies maps was for fun. Well at least it used to be. Okay I guess It's about something in return now! oh boy!
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 10:56:16 pm

Do i really need to remind you of your own words?

No. I was just getting the impression that you didn't entirely believe in your guys's own words.

Quote
can garuntee - could it start a argument? Yes - then DD will be there

Don't always get into arguments/start them.

Quote
Could it be coded better? - DD will be there

Having someone tell you how you can improve your code is a good thing.

Quote
Does it have a IWD - DD will be there

So just about every map in existence.

Quote
Is it not COD 5 stock stuff? - DD WILL BE THERE

I play just about every map that is released so... yeah.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 10:57:00 pm
I thought the whole point of making custom zombies maps was for fun. Well at least it used to be. Okay I guess It's about something in return now! oh boy!
...

please read again

We didnt say its all about money

and if you guys actually used your eyes, you would see it WILL BE FREE

AND

HE RELEASED ANOTHER MAP TO TIDE YOU OVER WITH HALF THE OIL RIG FEATURES

like seriously are people just blind? or purposefully ignorant?



And DD, just STFU, all you do is moan and complain and HARSHLY JUDGE AND CRITICISE ( no trying to "help people improve", dont kid yourself ), you bring absolutely NOTHING to the table, and are just generally a argumentative ass to over half the community

No one gives a damn what you say or think, and we NEVER WILL
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 11:00:06 pm
...

please read again

We didnt say its all about money

and if you guys actually used your eyes, you would see it WILL BE FREE

AND

HE RELEASED ANOTHER MAP TO TIDE YOU OVER WITH HALF THE OIL RIG FEATURES

like seriously are people just blind? or purposefully ignorant?
Um... you please READ AGAIN. He said we want something in return. and I said "Okay I guess it's about something in return now! oh boy!" I never mentioned money.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 11:01:24 pm
what else are you getting in return then

and as you said

Quote
Well at least it used to be. Okay I guess It's about something in return now

on a topic about a donation for service topic, so put 2 and 2 together mate

or do tell me what else you are "getting" from this
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 11:03:51 pm
And DD, just STFU, all you do is moan and complain and HARSHLY JUDGE AND CRITICISE ( no trying to "help people improve", dont kid yourself ), you bring absolutely NOTHING to the table, and are just generally a argumentative ass to over half the community

No one gives a damn what you say or think

Nothing huh? I guess all of the help topics i've participated in, respect, Soviet mod + template, etc is nothing. OK.

But since when did this become about me? Isn't it a bit off-topic?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 11:05:27 pm
what else are you getting in return then

and as you said

on a topic about a donation for service topic, so put 2 and 2 together mate

or do tell me what else you are "getting" from this
I was just saying none of you "skilled" mappers want to make maps for fun anymore. That's what it's been since I started a long while back, then I joined here and saw that everyone was just having fun also. I was enjoying it. Then donations come to play out of no where. I know you haven't been in the community as long as most of us so you don't see all the fun and games everyone used to have. I just wish it was still like that but apparently no it's not.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 11:09:03 pm
Nothing huh? I guess all of the help topics i've participated in, respect, Soviet mod + template, etc is nothing. OK.

But since when did this become about me? Isn't it a bit off-topic?
yipee

Yet everything else you say or do, is nothing but negative bullshit

and im yet to see a "soviet mod" map made

yet i still see constant lists of criticism from you on everyone else shit

just give up already bro, all you do is prove your here solely to bash people not as skilled as you, as anything of GOOD quality, you completely ignore

you only speak to COMPLAIN AND CRITICISE

Quote
I was just saying none of you "skilled" mappers want to make maps for fun anymore. That's what it's been since I started a long while back, then I joined here and saw that everyone was just having fun also. I was enjoying it. Then donations come to play out of no where. I know you haven't been in the community as long as most of us so you don't see all the fun and games everyone used to have. I just wish it was still like that but apparently no it's not.

Yo u are joking right? Been "playing" since 2009 bro

and you also just prove MY point that you WERE refering to money

Quote
I never mentioned money

none of MY shit is paid for, and this WILL NOT BE paid for in 2 months, and ALL my shit has been released for the COMMUNITY so please show me :

Quote
none of you "skilled" mappers want to make maps for fun anymore

Theres like 1000 maps here, and 2 require donations - both of which will be free "later" READ GERARD

Quote
Then donations come to play out of no where

Requiem has been around for a year now and ugx mod in production for 2.... donations have existed since the first days of the church of chirst...
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Nathiri on September 04, 2015, 11:14:03 pm
Its getting a bit too heated isnt it?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: CyberMan1011 on September 04, 2015, 11:14:36 pm
Its getting a bit too heated isnt it?

So much for a civil discussion :lol:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 11:14:59 pm
Its getting a bit too heated isnt it?
yeah coz people are throwing around accusations, opinions and statements they dont even understand

or are the usual trouble causing ( more like SEARCHING ) members AS ALWAYS

If your against it

DONT DO IT

its really not a hard concept
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 11:16:31 pm
yipee

Yet everything else you say or do, is nothing but negative bullshit


I have said positive things, actually. Not that long ago i said how i liked the scale(size) of old_castle map that was just released.

Quote
and im yet to see a "soviet mod" map made

I've made two, been working on like 3. Don't think most know you can easily create a map using it, or if they do they just don't have the interest since this is a zombie community.

Quote
yet i still see constant lists of criticism from you on everyone else shit

Again, i do say positive things, just not very often.

Quote
just give up already bro, all you do is prove your here solely to bash people not as skilled as you, as anything of GOOD quality, you completely ignore

Complete lie. I liked Leviathan's level design and have stated that plenty of times before.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 11:17:51 pm
Requiem Release Date: November 29, 2014 (2 years ago according to Harry).
I donated because it helped produce ugx mod. didn't play the map much.
Not donating for this because there is no good cause for it.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 11:18:34 pm
I have said positive things, actually. Not that long ago i said how i liked the scale(size) of old_castle map that was just released.

I've made two, been working on like 3. Don't think most know you can easily create a map using it, or if they do they just don't have the interest since this is a zombie community.

Again, i do say positive things, just not very often.

Complete lie. I liked Leviathan's level design and have stated that plenty of times before.

stop fooling yourself DD

you never say a single nice or constructive thing EVER

and even if you do, you write in in such a prickish way, it comes across that way regardless

stop trying to fool yourself bro

Double Post Merge: September 04, 2015, 11:19:14 pm
Requiem Release Date: November 29, 2014 (2 years ago according to Harry).
I donated because it helped produce ugx mod. didn't play the map much.
Not donating for this because there is no good cause for it.
try looking at the edit before trying to pick out the minor inaccuracies

you showed how childish YOU are too, again

Quote
I donated because it helped produce ugx mod. didn't play the map much.

No, donations were for the support of the "Site"

Quote
Not donating for this because there is no good cause for it.

and as weve all said, YOU DONT HAVE TO IT WILL BE FREE LATER
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 11:21:10 pm
Once again. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE MAP
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 11:22:02 pm
Once again. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE MAP
then WHY are you even in this conversation?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 11:22:19 pm
you never say a single nice or constructive thing EVER

and even if you do, you write in in such a prickish way, it comes across that way regardless

Your kinda contradicting yourself, but OK.

I'm not going to participate in this off-topic sub discussion anymore.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 11:22:54 pm
Your kinda contradicting yourself, but OK.

I'm not going to participate in this off-topic sub discussion anymore.
lol whatever bro, read what that word means

but please, carry on bringing up the 1/2 examples where you have been "relativly" kind or just "not an ass" in comparrison to the like 1000 times youve just soulessly bashed people and their work here

like nearly everytime you speak you say something along these lines :

"Nearly everyone does a crap job of their buggy bad scripts and make unimaginative crap box maps"

You even play the leviathan supporter now, yet ive seen you slate it hundreds of times, regardless of the fact the only reason they hadnt fixed it was due to the fact it wouldnt compile...

do i need to remind you of this ? Was that bad you decided to fix it YOURSELF much to quite a few peoples "poor reaction" as i recall

Quote
I've decided to create my own "Unofficial Script Patch" for Leviathan. This patch will include fixes for every error that i can find within the map which will in turn make the map MUCH more playable(no G spawn errors). It will take awhile(a few days at least) but the end result will definitely be worth it!

I am also keeping a change log for every error that i find - currently i haven't even been able to play the map because of how broken this map is - but i'll get to that point eventually.

Current changelog(image): 

Other notes about this patch:

- This patch will only include script errors that World at War complains about during normal gameplay(So i'm not testing things like the EE unless someone wants to help out).

- Absolutely no scripts/code is being taken from this map by me for personal use. My goal is strictly to help the developers out and make this map what it should and could have been on release.

- All credits for the original work that went into this belongs to Treyarch and the guys behind Leviathan, only the script edits that fix the errors are mine.

- if requested by the developers, i will abandon this patch at any time.
Modify message
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 01:57:27 pm by daedra descent »

Your such a two face mate, playing the high and mighty using your big words thinking your being smart, bashing on everything all the time

CHILDISH
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 11:25:08 pm
and even if you do, you write in in such a prickish way, it comes across that way regardless
He helped me with scripts, helped me with computer problems, helped me with many things on here than you wouldn't have. He also didn't say it in a prickish way. Also, all arguments that are between you two are started by you Harry. You always say to DD, all you do is criticize. All you do is complain and bam that starts a whole argument again. It would be great if these would stop so we can all just enjoy this community and stop kicking other people out, making them not feel welcome. mods are supposed to make people feel welcome i thought but this is my last message here. I'm out ;)
Title: Re: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: timelordalex on September 04, 2015, 11:25:39 pm
Not everyone plays on a potato Alex...::)

Even if i could play it properly i wouldnt buy it, its got nothing on maps like Requiem and Leviathan
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: CyberMan1011 on September 04, 2015, 11:26:23 pm
Can't we just put a "Donate" button under the person's profile for those who want to help support him/her and leave it at that?

If people were releasing full maps they've created that they're already done with AND they were asking for donations, then I can see why people would be so pissed about it. But this is just a beta, so...
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Nathiri on September 04, 2015, 11:27:03 pm
Can't we just put a "Donate" button under the person's profile for those who want to help support him/her and leave it at that?

If people were releasing full maps they've created that they're already done with AND they were asking for donations, then I can see why people would be so pissed about it. But this is just a beta, so...


Actually its really early access.

Some of the discussion was the difference between beta and early access.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: CyberMan1011 on September 04, 2015, 11:28:04 pm

Actually its really early access.

But didn't the original topic say it was a beta?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: JiffyNoodles on September 04, 2015, 11:28:13 pm
OK, let's settle this little debate (not the oil rig one, i've said enough)
Harry: Your a a Moderator bro, just calm your farm, your giving them ammunition to throw back at you, so just stop
Daedra Decent: I understand you know a lot about the legal side of things, but please, can we just stop constantly saying that 'this shits illegal', although you might be right, Activision probably doesn't even care, because, if they did indeed care, why haven't people like TOM-BMX been arrested for selling assets.
GerardS0405: If you don't care, as harry stated, why are you here? Are you trying to piss off a Site Mod for kicks? :kidding:
Anyway, enough has been said, and I hope that you guys settle your argument either over skype or PM
With kind regards,
JiffyNoodles

Double Post Merge: September 04, 2015, 11:29:14 pm
Even if i could play it properly i wouldnt buy it, its got nothing on maps like Requiem and Leviathan
why? because no Ray-Gun Mark 2?
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 04, 2015, 11:31:10 pm
For anybody wondering at the time of this post there's a total of 323 posts. I think this thread has gone on long enough and should be swiftly closed. most all of the comment posted are just endless arguments that are not against the problem at hand, but against other mappers. This post has quickly deteriorated from a discussion about the map controversy, into a slagging ring to vent anger. If it is left up more useless arguments will continue to form. If you wish to continue your arguments take them to a general topic and debate to your hearts content. SIGN ELYKSON343
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Nathiri on September 04, 2015, 11:33:15 pm
There has been probably enough discussion. The objections have already been put forward and re-put forward. Some have been refuted, others have been considered.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 04, 2015, 11:43:38 pm
Quote
Daedra Decent: I understand you know a lot about the legal side of things, but please, can we just stop constantly saying that 'this shits illegal', although you might be right, Activision probably doesn't even care, because, if they did indeed care, why haven't people like TOM-BMX been arrested for selling assets.

I don't. I just think that developers and publisher's property should be respected and any agreements put forth by them should also be upheld at all times. Thats the way it is in other modding communities and i don't see why it shouldn't be the same in this one.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 11:48:15 pm
Harry: Your a a Moderator bro, just calm your farm, your giving them ammunition to throw back at you, so just stop

can say what they like, i really dont care

Im nothing but helpful around here, regardless of what gerard says, to start with hes using a list of my stuff as it is.

Then there is literally a list of other maps with my name in credits for "helping" or for "giving" my features to them. Fuck i spent 12 hours on teamspeak setting up the mod tools on some italian guys pc ffs...

When I "had an opinion" that people shouldnt tamper with other peoples mods, it also got flamed for "having an opinion" which is the very thing this is. Funny how it never seems to go both ways when a site mod is involved so i really couldnt care less anymore

The people "threatening" ugx overthis have "proved" that they dont give 2 fks about this community in my "opinion" as it is
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 11:51:15 pm
can say what they like, i really dont care

Im nothing but helpful around here, regardless of what gerard says, to start with hes using a list of my stuff as it is.

Then there is literally a list of other maps with my name in credits for "helping" or for "giving" my features to them. Fuck i spent 12 hours on teamspeak setting up the mod tools on some italian guys pc ffs...

When I "had an opinion" that people shouldnt tamper with other peoples mods, it also got flamed for "having an opinion" which is the very thing this is. Funny how it never seems to go both ways when a site mod is involved so i really couldnt care less anymore

The people "threatening" ugx overthis have "proved" that they dont give 2 fks about this community in my "opinion" as it is
I'm sorry but I was just saying that you've never helped me specifically. DD has. I know you have helped other people and I'm just saying me specifically you haven't. I'm sorry about all this now, people can get back on topic. This is resolved hopefully.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 04, 2015, 11:51:50 pm
I'm sorry but I was just saying that you've never helped me specifically. DD has. I know you have helped other people and I'm just saying me specifically you haven't. I'm sorry about all this now, people can get back on topic. This is resolved hopefully.
I suggest you just stop

Half the reason i fixed the perks and craftables was cause YOU were the one reporting issues
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 04, 2015, 11:52:24 pm
I suggest you just stop

Half the reason i fixed the perks was cause YOU were the one reporting issues
Yea I was testing it. Helping you. and I just said I was just going to stop.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 12:03:40 am
WTF is this topic now? Might as well just lock it, people can't have a civilised debate over something without a fucking mess of shit slinging and bullshit, sums up this 'community' in a nutshell. Gerard you just said you have no interest in the map so go away then, why are you posting? Just for some attention? Trying to get involved and see if there are any bandwagons to be jumped on? :facepalm:

And DD your opinions are almost universally derided and ridiculed, safe to say no-one cares what you think about anything.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ege115 on September 05, 2015, 12:06:00 am
People just want something for nothing. They have no comprehension of the work required to make maps on this scale. It just takes so long, maps like this, Leviathan, Herrenhaus, etc. are just one offs, the mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return. I know for sure I will never make a map this large and ambitious again, I know the Leviathan team feel the same, most of the talented people make 1 or 2 maps and just move on. It's just way too time-consuming and isn't worth it.
No one forces the mappers to make big maps like leviathan, the mapper could just stop anytime if the mapper thought it wasn't worth it, they choose that themselves obviously. Otherwise they would never ever even start on a big map like that if they really thought it was not worth the time to make it.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 05, 2015, 12:07:53 am
Gerard you just said you have no interest in the map so go away then, why are you posting?
This topic was about donating not the map itself.

No one forces the mappers to make big maps like leviathan, the mapper could just stop anytime if the mapper thought it wasn't worth it, they choose that themselves obviously. Otherwise they would never ever even start on a big map like that if they really thought it was not worth the time to make it.
+1
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:12:20 am
This topic was about donating not the map itself.
+1

I remind you of the topic name :

Quote
Oil Rig Controversey

and its contents :

Quote
well i just woke up to the aftermath of whatever mess was here this morning. clearly a lot of people are not happy about the prospect of mappers being able to make money back through paid betas, even if the public release will be free. i'm very surprised by the response of some mappers earlier who don't see the potential in this, and I'm also very disappointed in anyone who was low enough to report the website to Activision on Twitter or otherwise - keep your business here with us if you want the community to survive as a whole.

anyway this is not worth upsetting the community over the money we would have received to continue supporting this website. for example we just spent $4,000USD of requiem/site donations (i have a receipt for this) on a one year license for the Qt framework to use for the upcoming UGX Launcher redesign which will be released before the end of this year. like we've always said in the past we use the money you guys are kind of enough to donate in order to improve your experience and keep the site online. we are also planning on updating our servers again within the next year.

if this is just about stevie and not about UGX supporting the paid donation process then fine, but I just wanted to make it clear where the money is going on our side. please feel free to discuss both in this topic.

Quote
No one forces the mappers to make big maps like leviathan, the mapper could just stop anytime if the mapper thought it wasn't worth it, they choose that themselves obviously. Otherwise they would never ever even start on a big map like that if they really thought it was not worth the time to make it.

No but theres no "requirement" for them to release it at all. They "choose" to share it. Stevie "chose" to accept donations during these 2 months before release, and allow those who donate early access

They dont automatically have a right to Stevies map for free, just coz they dont agree. Stevie could very well decide not to release at all now for example

Same as stevie "does" have a right to accept donations. Any "opinions" on this, are just that, opinions. Not fact
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 05, 2015, 12:14:15 am
I remind you of the topic name :

and its contents :
Okay sorry misread. Well it's about either so yea. I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:15:39 am
Okay sorry misread. Well it's about either so yea. I'm sorry.
gerard you dont understand this chat at all

you still think ugx donations are for requiem/ugx mod, despite the fact they are actually the upkeep of the site...

Stevies donations are not "paying for access" either, donating to stevie - and part of this donation goes to ugx for the "site" -, results in him "allowing" you to play the map, in its current state. If not, then you need to wait two months for the final release
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 12:16:39 am
No one forces the mappers to make big maps like leviathan, the mapper could just stop anytime if the mapper thought it wasn't worth it, they choose that themselves obviously. Otherwise they would never ever even start on a big map like that if they really thought it was not worth the time to make it.
Then once they've made it they think 'great, that just took a year, and now I'll get nothing for this, I know let's make another one.' ::)

Even people still here, were basically gone before the contest came up (I'm looking at you JBird and Bam) let's not give it this moral high ground crap 'people don't map for money'.

A few more examples, Chroma got stuff from NGT for making a map for them, Rollon and Relaxing End, me and Dalek, Smasher and Dalek, Stuffy and Tomikaze, people map for money (or stuff that costs money) all the time. People acting like it's suddenly this 'new' immoral thing. ::)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 05, 2015, 12:17:27 am
People just want something for nothing. They have no comprehension of the work required to make maps on this scale. It just takes so long, maps like this, Leviathan, Herrenhaus, etc. are just one offs, the mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return. I know for sure I will never make a map this large and ambitious again, I know the Leviathan team feel the same, most of the talented people make 1 or 2 maps and just move on. It's just way too time-consuming and isn't worth it.

Stevie, I don't usually get annoyed with people in the community, but this is just hurting me... You are speaking for us mappers / modders through your eyes, and your mindset on this subject is warped beyond repair. You say "mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return." How can you speak for all us mappers / modders, can we take a step back and take me for example. I've been mapping nearly everyday that I'm at home for the past year and a half. And Nuketown has taken up around 7 months, which I'm still working on the second I'm writing this. Im not looking for money at all? All I (And I presume most of the community want), is to make maps for fun, so other people can have fun playing them. You don't see someone who has a hobby which is costing them tons of money saying.. "I need something in return." So if you do this for something in return then... well. I don't know what to say. So please can you just stop all of this usless BS that in the end will get nowhere. Thank you
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:18:35 am
you can chose to make money off whatever you want in the long run

some people make art for "fun"

bet they would still sell masterpieces

Or im a musician, because i "love" playing guitar, would still consider selling albums

I repair xboxes for "fun", people still pay me

Wrote a website for someone once, again for my own fun and learning, still got paid

all hes saying is receiving a little bit of cash, and it would be a little bit people, be fair, would "add encouragement and incentive" to some mappers who otherwise may ave drawn the line there

Hes right that most people only make the one map, then dissapear, because theres no incentive to make another - unless you "want" to - in which case, you prob are not one of the whole 2 people that have done this so far

Might as well cancel all the contests too by the current logic, they dont "deserve" to win money for making something either

same for youtubers, theyd better return all the money they made from "playing a game for fun" too
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 05, 2015, 12:21:47 am
you can chose to make money off whatever you want in the long run

some people make art for "fun"

bet they would still sell masterpieces

Or im a musician, because i "love" playing guitar, would still consider selling albums

I repair xboxes for "fun", people still pay me

Wrote a website for someone once, again for my own fun and learning, still got paid

It was mainly the fact that he spoke for all of the community when saying it, that's what pissed me off. My mindset is that I can have fun showing my creativity in the form of a map, and I work so people enjoy the maps and have fun.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:22:16 am
I think thats just a perception thing ;)

personally my goal here has always been to make and release features, coz like you i enjoy it

Have no intention to charge, but if people were to donate id happily accept lol

And in return, im sure i would share some prototype or experimental stuff if they asked. Then again i hand it out for free anyway lol
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 12:22:31 am
Stevie, I don't usually get annoyed with people in the community, but this is just hurting me... You are speaking for us mappers / modders through your eyes, and your mindset on this subject is warped beyond repair. You say "mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return." How can you speak for all us mappers / modders, can we take a step back and take me for example. I've been mapping nearly everyday that I'm at home for the past year and a half. And Nuketown has taken up around 7 months, which I'm still working on the second I'm writing this. Im not looking for money at all? All I (And I presume most of the community want), is to make maps for fun, so other people can have fun playing them. You don't see someone who has a hobby which is costing them tons of money saying.. "I need something in return." So if you do this for something in return then... well. I don't know what to say. So please can you just stop all of this usless BS that in the end will get nowhere. Thank you
Hey if you want to spend a few years of your life making 1 or 2 maps for absolutely nothing in return then fair play to you, you have my respect. The number of good mappers who have released more than 2 maps are pretty rare which says it all really.

And where did I 'speak for the community'? I said most mappers move on after 1/2 maps because they do. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: GerardS0406 on September 05, 2015, 12:23:48 am
gerard you dont understand this chat at all

you still think ugx donations are for requiem/ugx mod, despite the fact they are actually the upkeep of the site...
Cause many people on here said it was for the mod itself also. I'm sorry once again.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 05, 2015, 12:24:40 am
Hey if you want to spend a few years of your life making 1 or 2 maps for absolutely nothing in return then fair play to you, you have my respect. The number of good mappers who have released more than 2 maps are pretty rare which says it all really.

I just got annoyed since you was speaking for the community in saying we want something in return, because some of us do it to make people happy.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ege115 on September 05, 2015, 12:27:14 am
Then once they've made it they think 'great, that just took a year, and now I'll get nothing for this, I know let's make another one.' ::)

Even people still here, were basically gone before the contest came up (I'm looking at you JBird and Bam) let's not give it this moral high ground crap 'people don't map for money'.

A few more examples, Chroma got stuff from NGT for making a map for them, Rollon and Relaxing End, me and Dalek, Smasher and Dalek, Stuffy and Tomikaze, people map for money (or stuff that costs money) all the time. People acting like it's suddenly this 'new' immoral thing. ::)
All this time since the mod tools got released, people have been making maps for fun and what they get in return is seeing people enjoy. It's been like this for several years now and it has worked well and made both the developer and the player happy, and now suddenly it's just about the money...

Well well, I guess this just another case of a failed "company" well a forum. Look at the worst company in the world, Electronic arts, they used to care about what they did with their games until when they relized how much money they can actually get.

Edit: I've also heard that chroma actually never got anyting from ngt.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 12:27:36 am
I just got annoyed since you was speaking for the community in saying we want something in return, because some of us do it to make people happy.

People just want something for nothing. They have no comprehension of the work required to make maps on this scale. It just takes so long, maps like this, Leviathan, Herrenhaus, etc. are just one offs, the mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return. I know for sure I will never make a map this large and ambitious again, I know the Leviathan team feel the same, most of the talented people make 1 or 2 maps and just move on. It's just way too time-consuming and isn't worth it.

Where did I 'speak for the community'? ???
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: daedra descent on September 05, 2015, 12:28:05 am
Quote
And DD your opinions are almost universally derided and ridiculed, safe to say no-one cares what you think about anything.

1. not relevant to the topic.

2. Most of what i've been saying is fact and can be proven.

3. I could care less what others think of me.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 05, 2015, 12:28:49 am
Where did I 'speak for the community'? ???

"the mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return"
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:29:17 am
I just got annoyed since you was speaking for the community in saying we want something in return, because some of us do it to make people happy.
again, it will be free in 2 months

Hes just saying its "more likely" youll return to mapping, if you have had some form of success

Coz lets be fair, half the community here see a free map, then play it with a pen and paper in hand to write down every minor problem they see, just to come and blast the topic moments later

If people just played what they got for free, and expected the quality level that amount buys, id agree entirely

but they dont

so hes ruthlessly plugged up just about every bug in this map, The sheer amount of time and attention that has taken is immense. I would know, ive even done some of it, and trust me it wasnt out of enjoyment lol

Double Post Merge: September 05, 2015, 12:31:55 am
All this time since the mod tools got released, people have been making maps for fun and what they get in return is seeing people enjoy. It's been like this for several years now and it has worked well and made both the developer and the player happy, and now suddenly it's just about the money...

Well well, I guess this just another case of a failed "company" well a forum. Look at the worst company in the world, Electronic arts, they used to care about what they did with their games until when they relized how much money they can actually get.
electronic arts did not "release it for free" 2 months later

ARE WE ALL MISSING THIS STILL

If you dont want to pay, then you just have to WAIT

how is that "all about the money"?

If it were "all about the money"

A: Would all go to stevie, which it doesnt

B: Would NEVER be free
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 12:31:58 am
"the mappers/modders just simply don't have the time or motivation to spend that much time on something for absolutely nothing in return"
Yes just cut me off mid sentence and quote it. ::) I referenced my map, the Leviathan team (who said the same thing), and Herrenhaus, and probably a few others so I put 'etc'. How is that speaking for the community? :facepalm:
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ege115 on September 05, 2015, 12:36:14 am
Yes just cut me off mid sentence and quote it. ::) I referenced my map, the Leviathan team (who said the same thing), and Herrenhaus, and probably a few others so I put 'etc'. How is that speaking for the community? :facepalm:
Well, I guess the leviathan team only have themselves to blame if they said that, they continued anyway. Hell, they even updated it today.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:36:29 am
Yes just cut me off mid sentence and quote it. ::) I referenced my map, the Leviathan team (who said the same thing), and Herrenhaus, and probably a few others so I put 'etc'. How is that speaking for the community? :facepalm:
I actually agree this should just be locked and removed

People cant actually discuss these things

All they can do is twist the point to make it seem worse than it is, go crying to activision, attack the SITE and lie claiming they would never accept money for this

The whole thing has just become the usual crap we see time and time again

If it were "for fun and enjoyment", we wouldnt have 100s of cancelled maps in LOS because of people coming and hating on them so bad, the mapper cancels and moves on

I think we should all stop playing the "we are such a kind community" card and face facts

people are free to take donations if they want, if you dont like it, dont dontate. And stop "twisting" it to say its "all about money"

Coz by that logic, I remind you just how many absent mappers have ONLY appeared for the contests...



Quote
2. Most of what i've been saying is fact and can be proven.

and i "can prove" that 90% of your posts is being an ass ;)

You came in here just to flaunt your "I know the law" attitude, which isnt even correct...

then moved on to morality - again a matter of opinion

all the while still trying to claim its wrong to make a few bucks out of something you worked hard on - despite the fact, you CAN pay nothing, and still get the map. Making everything youve said here, completely redundant in every possible way so :

Quote
1. not relevant to the topic.

very relevent
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 12:39:15 am
Well, I guess the leviathan team only have themselves to blame if they said that, they continued anyway. Hell, they even updated it today.
It is a new map? Wow, I thought they just fixed some script things and made an update? Well if it's already a whole new map I'm even more excited to play it now.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 05, 2015, 12:42:47 am
I actually agree this should just be locked and removed

People cant actually discuss these things

All they can do is twist the point to make it seem worse than it is, go crying to activision, attack the SITE and lie claiming they would never accept money for this

The whole thing has just become the usual crap we see time and time again

If it were "for fun and enjoyment", we wouldnt have 100s of cancelled maps in LOS because of people coming and hating on them so bad, the mapper cancels and moves on

I think we should all stop playing the "we are such a kind community" card and face facts

people are free to take donations if they want, if you dont like it, dont dontate. And stop "twisting" it to say its "all about money"

Coz by that logic, I remind you just how many absent mappers have ONLY appeared for the contests...

I never said its all about money, its the fact that people are not getting the map the same time as everyone else, its restricting the map from other people since if the beta comes out for donaters, that in theory should be the date it comes out for everyone.. But it isn't. Which is why I think its wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the donating to mappers / modders to encourage them, but not when its pushing out betas to people who pay up, and leaving people who don't pay with no beta.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Ege115 on September 05, 2015, 12:44:19 am
It is a new map? Wow, I thought they just fixed some script things and made an update? Well if it's already a whole new map I'm even more excited to play it now.
Nope it isn't a new map, like you said. But they still decided to keep developing the map. No one forced them to continue developing, they could have stopped anytime.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:45:44 am
I never said its all about money, its the fact that people are not getting the map the same time as everyone else, its restricting the map from other people since if the beta comes out for donaters, that in theory should be the date it comes out for everyone.. But it isn't. Which is why I think its wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the donating to mappers / modders to encourage them, but not when its pushing out betas to people who pay up, and leaving people who don't pay with no beta.
and im not talking about "you" specifically, please "try" to see that

I can already tell some of you are just assuming im taking sides coz im friends with Stevie, but thats nothing to do with it. I literally feel people are entitled to take donations, to help them further their work in the future

Quote
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the donating to mappers / modders to encourage them, but not when its pushing out betas to people who pay up, and leaving people who don't pay with no beta.
Modify message

Here, the true reason

your not "going without" anything THE MAP IS STILL COMING OUT IN 2 MONTHS

and your not "entitled" to the beta in the first place

your not even entitled to the MAP in the first place, just look at the COD ONLINE WIP which is NOT GETTING RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC

Quote
that in theory should be the date it comes out for everyone

I remind you again, this is not "an official" map, nor are you "buying" it. you are donating to stevie. And stevie rewards the donators with the beta, just like UGX, and just like Activision does with preorders

and again i remind you, you have no "entitlement" to play this map AT ALL

omg im talking to walls...
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 12:46:22 am
Nope it isn't a new map, like you said. But they still decided to keep developing the map. No one forced them to continue developing, they could have stopped anytime.
The point was they said this map was a one-off, and they don't plan on making another one like it ever. Not whether or not they provided updates to a map they released to fix bugs and stuff, that's totally irrelevant.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: MAK911 on September 05, 2015, 12:47:14 am
and im not talking about "you" specifically, please "try" to see that

I can already tell some of you are just assuming im taking sides coz im friends with Stevie, but thats nothing to do with it. I literally feel people are entitled to take donations, to help them further their work in the future
Not bias at all...
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 05, 2015, 12:49:12 am
and im not talking about "you" specifically, please "try" to see that

I can already tell some of you are just assuming im taking sides coz im friends with Stevie, but thats nothing to do with it. I literally feel people are entitled to take donations, to help them further their work in the future

So am I, in fact I think everyone should have a donate button below their name, but it shouldn't impact other people who don't donate. Also, please don't get cocky, it just makes me cringe kinda :/
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:49:30 am
Not bias at all...
um, I worked on this damn hard, and "I" am getting fuck all from this donation process, and stuffy said the same

So take your words and kindly...

Double Post Merge: September 05, 2015, 12:50:14 am
So am I, in fact I think everyone should have a donate button below their name, but it shouldn't impact other people who don't donate. Also, please don't get cocky, it just makes me cringe kinda :/
I wasnt

grow up
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 05, 2015, 12:53:22 am
um, I worked on this damn hard, and "I" am getting fuck all from this donation process, and stuffy said the same

So take your words and kindly...

Double Post Merge: September 05, 2015, 12:50:14 am
I wasnt

grow up

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FU3ywJJF.png&hash=b66fe8380bf56de172ce1a4c069d66d39ab4967d)

"and im not talking about "you" specifically, please "try" to see that"

"I wasnt

grow up"
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:55:12 am
(http://i.imgur.com/U3ywJJF.png)

"and im not talking about "you" specifically, please "try" to see that"

"I wasnt

grow up"

lol ok, so i try to explain that im not talking to you with my comments, because you keep responding as if i am

which is quite obvious as you keep quoting me

thats being "cocky"

whatever man
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 12:56:08 am
Not bias at all...
How ironic from you. ::)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 05, 2015, 12:56:15 am
lol ok, so i try to explain that im not talking to you with my comments, because you keep responding as if i am

thats being "cocky"

whatever man

(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toxicards.com%2Fdata%2Fcards%2Fyou-haven-t-truly-won-an-argument-until-the-other-person-says-whatever-232.png&hash=609acfaae6ea10b9e1d0e9f9bec82f7c6c24b21a)
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 12:59:44 am
(http://www.toxicards.com/data/cards/you-haven-t-truly-won-an-argument-until-the-other-person-says-whatever-232.png)
dude just do one

Just tried to say to you i WASNT trying to point you out, or offend you

youve promptly been an ass too with petty misunderstood comments and childish little memes

shocker

Double Post Merge: September 05, 2015, 01:01:18 am
fine jammy, ill just delete your BS, how about that
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: SirJammy on September 05, 2015, 01:04:19 am
dude just do one

Just tried to say to you i WASNT trying to point you out, or offend you

youve promptly been an ass too with petty misunderstood comments and childish little memes

shocker

Double Post Merge: September 05, 2015, 01:01:18 am
fine jammy, ill just delete your BS, how about that

Resulted to removing my posts so you don't get triggered, Wont be surprised if this gets taken down. Noiccee
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 01:08:07 am
Just lock the topic already. ::)

WTF is this topic now? Might as well just lock it, people can't have a civilised debate over something without a fucking mess of shit slinging and bullshit, sums up this 'community' in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 01:15:31 am
Quote
Resulted to removing my posts so you don't get triggered, Wont be surprised if this gets taken down. Noiccee

well when i went out of my way to say "im not trying to offend you"

was retorted by insulting me and posting childish memes trying to antagonize me - YES

Quote
Just lock the topic already. ::)

I cant coz its in announcements i think
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: steviewonder87 on September 05, 2015, 01:17:22 am
(https://i.imgflip.com/qlcst.jpg)
Case in point. ::)

It's just become a mess of spam and ranting because this community is mostly a bunch of kids incapable of discussing anything in a diplomatic way and it ALWAYS results in a multitude of arguments and shit stirring. Truly pathetic.

And how can you 'argue' with people who have anything to say? Read the replies MAK :facepalm2: You think it's worthwhile to keep this thread open?

Everything was discussed in the first few pages pretty much, if you had a 'bullshit filter' this thread would probably be about 3-4 pages long. ::) But I know you're probably enjoying all the fighting because you're just like that.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Harry Bo21 on September 05, 2015, 01:18:27 am
Quote
Everything was discussed in the first few pages pretty much, if you had a 'bullshit filter' this thread would probably be about 3-4 pages long. ::) But I know you're probably enjoying all the fighting because you're just like that.

This
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: DeletedUser on September 05, 2015, 01:35:36 am
Current number of posts 370(at the time of this post). %80 Useless, recycled, and hateful comments. %5 Bug and error posts. %10 Good, constructive, well thought out comments. %5 other. Judging by these percentages the thread has gone from contoversy to nerd rage. this topic shouldv'e been closed long ago.
Title: Re: Oil Rig Controversey
Post by: Lukkie1998 on September 05, 2015, 09:40:00 am
Just lock the topic already. ::)
(https://i.imgflip.com/qlcst.jpg)
Case in point. ::)

It's just become a mess of spam and ranting because this community is mostly a bunch of kids incapable of discussing anything in a diplomatic way and it ALWAYS results in a multitude of arguments and shit stirring. Truly pathetic.

And how can you 'argue' with people who have anything to say? Read the replies MAK :facepalm2: You think it's worthwhile to keep this thread open?

Everything was discussed in the first few pages pretty much, if you had a 'bullshit filter' this thread would probably be about 3-4 pages long. ::) But I know you're probably enjoying all the fighting because you're just like that.
Current number of posts 370(at the time of this post). %80 Useless, recycled, and hateful comments. %5 Bug and error posts. %10 Good, constructive, well thought out comments. %5 other. Judging by these percentages the thread has gone from contoversy to nerd rage. this topic shouldv'e been closed long ago.
This post has derailed way too far... What was ment to be a topic to talk about the map, ask things about the map to stevie etc. turned out completely the wrong way. Instead, this 25 page topic became a complete rant at steviewonder. 25 pages of complete BS being posted.

Such a shame to see how a community this big can be so toxic. And it's even worse to see how a group of max. 10-15 people are bullying each other. Thought that bullying was mostly done at primary school, I didn't expect to see that here on  a forum where people are (average) 15+.

This thread will remain locked until we see the site has calmed down and people are ready to post normal, sense making posts again. This could have gone completely different...

Lukkie1998