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Re: Oil Rig Controversey
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- Bwc66930
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so is this topic a way to take out anger on the oil rig donation thingy now?
- eliudjb
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Well, i dont know from where i can start... 
In my opinion about paying for a beta, I disagree. Why? It's suppose in beta version there are testers, testers that the mapper choose to help him fix/detect details before the final release, and of course even in that way the map still have some troubles to fix, which doesn't matter at all.
Second, almost all here confuses the beta with an early access. Paying for the Early access could be better than paying for a beta. The mapper could release the map two weeks before the "Public release" for all those donators. For example:
Oil Rig.
Early Access (not beta
) - September 1, 2015.
Public Release - September 15, 2015.
For last, I don't like people which earn money playing custom maps WITHOUT any mention or paying to creator. Recieving money from youtubers (example) could be a good business for the mappers. In fact, if they want pay to have an "early" early access (like 3 weeks before the public release) could be better
.
Pretty sure i forgot something but whatever
In my opinion about paying for a beta, I disagree. Why? It's suppose in beta version there are testers, testers that the mapper choose to help him fix/detect details before the final release, and of course even in that way the map still have some troubles to fix, which doesn't matter at all.
Second, almost all here confuses the beta with an early access. Paying for the Early access could be better than paying for a beta. The mapper could release the map two weeks before the "Public release" for all those donators. For example:
Oil Rig.
Early Access (not beta
) - September 1, 2015.Public Release - September 15, 2015.
For last, I don't like people which earn money playing custom maps WITHOUT any mention or paying to creator. Recieving money from youtubers (example) could be a good business for the mappers. In fact, if they want pay to have an "early" early access (like 3 weeks before the public release) could be better
.Pretty sure i forgot something but whatever
- DeletedUser
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Yes, taking assets that weren't even intended on being as accessible as they are now, using them in a map, and profiting off it is 100% ok, once again I am neutral on the subject, but please have some logic before coming out with this.
bringing ported models and such into this is a completely different story and is not even related to my post. i was just pointing out the legality of have a donor beta for a map. and that is legal. but using assets from other games without written approval from the original creator is illegal.
- daedra descent
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Let's keep this thread on topic from here on in. -DBZ
+1 to off-topic reply -DBZ
lmao. Too funny.
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+1 to off-topic reply -DBZ
lmao. Too funny.
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If you want you can read this. https://www.activision.com/legal/terms-of-use
Just want to point out that this isn't the actual mod tools EULA. The one people are referring too comes with mods tools and are add-ons to the existing EULA that comes with the game.
- DeletedUser
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Just want to point out that this isn't the actual mod tools EULA. The one people are referring too comes with mods tools and are add-ons to the existing EULA that comes with the game.
oh thanks but as this is the activision terms of use it still has the same basic set up. and nowhere in this does it say you can't have a UGC(User Generated Content) as an attachment to a 3rd party donation.
- daedra descent
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oh thanks but as this is the activision terms of use it still has the same basic set up. and nowhere in this does it say you can't have a UGC(User Generated Content) as an attachment to a 3rd party donation.
It does if money has to be exchanged to get access to a map/mod. Directly from the EULA:
Quote
• If you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge.
Just to clear up any confusion. Not everyone knows about it/can see it.
- AoKMiKeY
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Somewhere in the UKI am going to write a lot more once this topic has died down a bit but just a quick message about what is legal and what is not.
I studied law before going into IT so what I say next is using my knowledge I gained while I studied law. Some things I am best at is making bullet proof contracts and any other legal document. but on a legal side of paying for maps we need to break down what a map is.
A map is content. The content consists of other peoples content ( normally of course ). Because your map ( content ) contains things like assets from cod games ( content ) and code from other people ( content ) and seeing how Activision own actual copyright over there assets ( content ). And everyone else in this frame owns intellectual property over there stuff ( content ).
There is a huge amount of problems when it comes to being paid for YOUR map ( content ). Ignoring ethics or anything else lets focus on law. If you are to take assets from a game with out permission and pack them into something else others can not easily take out of what ever it is packed into ( basically if you are not giving the raw asset out ) and then giving out that content for FREE is, under technicality and I mean technicality, legal because it is seen as not redistributing content.
The moment money comes into this it's a whole other game. At the point of receiving money for content you do not own the rights to you are stealing and you are undercutting the creator and you are breaking copyright laws.
I am not going to go into the logic on that one but once money is involved in basically asset sharing with assets you do not own you are stealing if you do not have the owners written permission.
Right. That is all from me for now. I will be back with a lot bigger and much better written post either today or tomorrow going over all the ins and outs of donation walls and beta access. But I will not do it now. This is too heated and I want people to read what I am saying with out a huge bias.
So thats the legal stuff. Copyright is a thing and unless it out right says you can have these assets and use them in what ever in the licence agreement then you can not take the assets and give them out. We by packaging them up into a mod for call of duty is just about the only way we are able to only just get away with taking assets from other games. Remember that.
With Love,
From You're amazing weirdo, AoKMiKeY
I studied law before going into IT so what I say next is using my knowledge I gained while I studied law. Some things I am best at is making bullet proof contracts and any other legal document. but on a legal side of paying for maps we need to break down what a map is.
A map is content. The content consists of other peoples content ( normally of course ). Because your map ( content ) contains things like assets from cod games ( content ) and code from other people ( content ) and seeing how Activision own actual copyright over there assets ( content ). And everyone else in this frame owns intellectual property over there stuff ( content ).
There is a huge amount of problems when it comes to being paid for YOUR map ( content ). Ignoring ethics or anything else lets focus on law. If you are to take assets from a game with out permission and pack them into something else others can not easily take out of what ever it is packed into ( basically if you are not giving the raw asset out ) and then giving out that content for FREE is, under technicality and I mean technicality, legal because it is seen as not redistributing content.
The moment money comes into this it's a whole other game. At the point of receiving money for content you do not own the rights to you are stealing and you are undercutting the creator and you are breaking copyright laws.
I am not going to go into the logic on that one but once money is involved in basically asset sharing with assets you do not own you are stealing if you do not have the owners written permission.
Right. That is all from me for now. I will be back with a lot bigger and much better written post either today or tomorrow going over all the ins and outs of donation walls and beta access. But I will not do it now. This is too heated and I want people to read what I am saying with out a huge bias.
So thats the legal stuff. Copyright is a thing and unless it out right says you can have these assets and use them in what ever in the licence agreement then you can not take the assets and give them out. We by packaging them up into a mod for call of duty is just about the only way we are able to only just get away with taking assets from other games. Remember that.
With Love,
From You're amazing weirdo, AoKMiKeY
- DeletedUser
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If you decide to make available the use of the New Game Materials created by you to other gamers, you agree to do so solely without charge.
hmm it does say that doesn't it. but i think there is a loophole here. as they are not paying for the mod itself, but instead they are donating to the person and the site and in return getting early access to a map. its like paying 4 dollars to get full site access. and getting a free map in return. but i see what you are saying. but this could be debated from both sides eternally and i don't think this is the proper place to do that.
Double Post Merge: September 02, 2015, 11:57:44 pm
Stuff and things and things and stuff
i read through this in its entirety and i just have one thing to comment about. saying that you are a law grad means nothing in an internet argument and is not really a good statement to make. it's easy to make a statement like that to make your comment seem more true. now i'm not saying it isn't. i'm just stating that saying something that is IRL to boost a comment isn't very wise as it degrades your over all comment. an example i'm 45 and i have graduated from college and gotten my PHD in civil engineering. so i know everything there is too know about bridges and roads so your argument is invalid. using your status to get people to follow you is known as argument from authority and is bad tactic in debate. as this entire thread is basically a debate. using tactics like this is a terrible way to make a point as people who know how to debate will call you out on them. but other than that your comment was very informing.
- ultimatehero2
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yea why is this a big deal cause I really wanted to play this map and people are all looking at this wrong and the donations are going to the website and plus a free map beta access. p.s worst part i wont be able to get beta access today.
- AoKMiKeY
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I was not doing it to use my IRL experience as a leg up. Just simply saying that I have had some experience and that experience has allowed me to make the post that I have. With out that experience I would have likely not even replied to this topic. But like you have said even with out it my post is still informative and this is all it needed to be
I will be writing a lot more ( around 1000+ words ) on this topic soon but I need to sit down and write it all down to reduce the amount of back fire I am going to get or might get. As of now my opinion on this matter stays closed to the public.
elykson343 -> If you want to say anything more then can we leave it to PM? I would rather have a personal conversion over pms and not this topic of all topics
by just worth noting. Have the experience does give you a leg up. I can also provided evidence of me going to do my law degree but that is neither here nor there. If you have experience in what you are speaking about it does strengthen your case. It does not impend upon authority or show that I have any more or anyless than anyone else. It simply shows that I have knowledge and can back anything I say. So when I am talking about law I will say I have studied because I am then speaking from knowledge and not from nothing.- DeletedUser
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i respect you for that and i thank you for a well thought out comment. too many a time there are people who post random shit in these threads thinking it is a work of art, but in all actuality it is just a polished turd. it's good to see there are others out there that can post a well thought out and developed comment.
- AoKMiKeY
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If there was a like button I would use it for you good sir
- DeletedUser
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If there was a like button I would use it for you good sir
there is its under my name and it says ADD RESPECT
- tomikaze
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What the heck!? I was hoping to graciously donate/gift but certainly not under any circumstances pay for an opportunity to assist the mapper by beta testing this epic map. Can I still do that?
On a side note, if this is going to be a thing (which I support in full) then I feel that everyone involved in making the map should get a slice of the pie or at least have an opportunity to benefit from this in accordance with how involved they were in the project. They can certainly decline their share of the donation, but it should be offered at least.
On a side note, if this is going to be a thing (which I support in full) then I feel that everyone involved in making the map should get a slice of the pie or at least have an opportunity to benefit from this in accordance with how involved they were in the project. They can certainly decline their share of the donation, but it should be offered at least.
- steviewonder87
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What the heck!? I was hoping to graciously donate/gift but certainly not under any circumstances pay for an opportunity to assist the mapper by beta testing this epic map. Can I still do that?How do you know they aren't?
On a side note, if this is going to be a thing (which I support in full) then I feel that everyone involved in making the map should get a slice of the pie or at least have an opportunity to benefit from this in accordance with how involved they were in the project. They can certainly decline their share of the donation, but it should be offered at least.