lmao, after it's been done once or twice before now all of the sudden it's different? UGX can do it, but a single mapper cant? If it wasn't for the agreement that come's with the mod tools UGX wouldn't have come up with this system either ( just my guess ). It's just wrong from a modding perspective, true. Is it really such a big deal and worth all this commotion? i dont think so, just dont pay for it if you dont want to.. The map will be released anyway later

Dont get me wrong, i'm not happy with this idea and would have rather seen the map get released normal. I also certainly dont hope this will be a new thing amongst mappers, but uehm:

 

Good points as always. Love the final response, lol. But as a reminder to everyone. Comparing things to things that been done before is just not right. Tons of things have been done before, horrible things, things that were acceptable at one time, and they continue to be done, unless people make a commotion, as history has proven. But this topic has prob got a little out of hand. Perhaps this should be looked at retrospectively, but I wouldn't simply accept things because they were done before. 

What is the difference from before? Were the previous ones only on the front page, not in the released section?

In my opinion this map is well worth 4 quid and i am more than happy with it. I think more maps should be like this because you end up with much better quality maps. sure just look at requiem and this map. They are both "treyarch standard" maps. I hope there is more maps like these to come. ME PLAYIN THIS MAP 

wont let me use the UGX account want me to create a new one?

yeah its separate from UGX

yeah its separate from UGX

password policy?

How about we leave donations open, and once a certain target is hit the map is released fully?

Isn't this supposed to be a beta? I mean, if you guys actually did do this instead, what if the certain target already gets reached within a few hours? (Though to be honest I highly doubt the target would get reached that quick)

Are you just going to release it in its current state like that?

Isn't this supposed to be a beta? I mean, if you guys actually did do this instead, what if the certain target already gets reached within a few hours? (Though to be honest I highly doubt the target would get reached that quick)

Are you just going to release it in its current state like that?

I think he's talking about "target" in terms of cash? or is that what you mean also?

I think he's talking about "target" in terms of cash? or is that what you mean also?

Yeah, by "target" I was referring to cash.

lmao, after it's been done once or twice before now all of the sudden it's different? UGX can do it, but a single mapper cant?

People(such as myself) have called out the paid beta/mod practice before but where immediately silenced with warnings or threats of being banned. As far as i'm aware, this is the first time an open discussion has taken place where none of that has happened(so far).

For the moral side of things... well, why would a mapper ever officially release their map when they could just keep it a 'beta' forever and keep making money? They really don't have a reason to do so, do they?

and isn't the point of a beta to test things anyway? How does a paywall help a mapper test their map?

side note: i was going to present my view on the legal side of things but wasn't sure if that was allowed.

side note: i was going to present my view on the legal side of things but wasn't sure if that was allowed.

It's an open discussion so I don't see why you can't use it.

For the moral side of things... well, why would a mapper ever officially release their map when they could just keep it a 'beta' forever and keep making money? They really don't have a reason to do so, do they?

This is something that crosses my mind (and I think someone else mentioned it similarly just worded different) that maps would strangely be in "beta" for some time, because like you said why release when you're making money?

I am all for donating to a site and to get early access for a map as long as the money is being used to help the site or mapper along. i see all the time people uploading videos on youtube and play maps yet the mapper isn't even mentioned that is why i am kind of hesitant to release any of my good project to the community because if that map happens to be popular i don't want to have some guy on youtube making money off of it and not even mention my name. i would donate and get the map beta but i don't have any money right now. so ill have to wait a while and all of the people out there bitching about it deal with it. its gonna come out for the rest of us in 3 weeks - 5 weeks. we waited what 1 year for it an extra 6 weeks is nothing.

and isn't the point of a beta to test things anyway? How does a paywall help a mapper test their map?

Youre comparing two different aspects of this and trying to connect them when they are irrelevant to each other. The paywall is incentive for people to actually contribute to the mapper instead of just taking the map for free and never coming back to make any sort of contribution. The debate is whether that's fair, not whether it helps the beta testing process.

side note: i was going to present my view on the legal side of things but wasn't sure if that was allowed.

no, we know this already and you've already stated it a handful of times.

I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about, they are just donations to play a map? if you don't want to donate to play it - than just wait patiently till it is released publicly. This is actually a good thing they have thought of to help keep the site going longer, imagine all the new and amazing maps people will make.

A little off-topic, but where do we reply to tell Stevie bugs we find in the map?  Or should we just PM him?

A little off-topic, but where do we reply to tell Stevie bugs we find in the map?  Or should we just PM him?

PM me.

I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about, they are just donations to play a map? if you don't want to donate to play it - than just wait patiently till it is released publicly. This is actually a good thing they have thought of to help keep the site going longer, imagine all the new and amazing maps people will make.

Everyone knows that no one will release their maps past beta if they can keep getting monies from them. "Donating" is the same as "buying" in this community, but we won't admit it because then Activision could take legal action. Paywall is still there. Naming a donkey "Horse" doesn't make the donkey a horse. It's also not a good thing because then people might release box maps, expecting to have this pay-to-play option. I know what Trem will say that they'll have "standards" for what maps can and can't have the paywall, but then people will be rushing their damn maps just for money and those "standards" will go out then window if times get hard. Hell, less care will even go into maps because it's all about the money. It will then lead to no one wanting to play zombies because someone put the Great Paywall of UGX in front of them.