Edit by treminaor: I took some time today to look into the legitimacy of these discussions and I have added some facts in blue to this post.

So there is currently some discussion going on in the UGX Chat Room and forum about "ripping" maps from Source games and taking scripts from people's IWDs in the community.

This includes ripping a map from a .ff file from ANY call of duty game AND ripping/converting a map from another engine to Call of Duty World at War. This was just a rumor started by certain unknown people. No one in this community is currently working on a map decompiler that will result in stolen maps. There are certain people who have ripped "entities" from map files, but this is not something to be concerned about. The entities in a map are things like script_structs and script_models that are needed by the scripts of the map. These entities are stored as plain-text in the fastfiles and also can be dumped using a console command in the game itself! So this is nothing new and nothing to be worried about. Even if a decompiler was made for .d3dbsp files, there is currently no way to rip the .d3dbsp files from the fastfiles themselves and it would not be easy because they are compiled, not just zipped. The Value BSP extractor that people are using on L4D2 maps cannot be adapted for use on COD .d3dbsp files - they are different formats, even though the engine is similar. TL;DR; there is no threat of WaW community map decompiling currently in this community and therefore these is no need to have any more paranoid discussions on how it should be prevented at this time.
I also had to read over and over again that someone stole this script or this gun from someone else.

So I would like to know how we should handle this?

Possible examples of rules that could be implemented:
(NONE OF THESE RULES ARE REAL YET, THEY ARE MERELY SUGGESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION)

Tools:
Any map-ripping too is disallowed on the site.

Map / Script
Distributing / using a ripped map from another game / script needs permission from the original author first.
He needs to be aware of all changes and where the file will be hosted. (+ has to agree obviously )
Proper credit with direct link to the original map / script

Reporting
Any reported conflicts need to be solved asap.
Until it's not solved any download links will be removed.
If this happens too often - we take the right to ban the account or disallow distribution on our sites.

Please keep in mind. - We can only make sure that this site offer a service of quality. And therefore the rules can only be forced on this site.

I would love to start an open discussion about this issue and I hope we can find together a good solution for the future.

Your input is needed now!

I do believe there is a difference between ripping for 'education' and outright plopping it into a map, but the problem is that you can't moderate usage of the tool (and if you did nobody would use it), but only the tool itself. You can't stop someone from ripping any assets they can obtain, but you can stop them from obtaining them here at UGX.

Why not try and promote a common header for all scripts shared on UGX? It would provide easy credit and ID, besides making the script look nice.

rules about decompiling .d3dbsp would be extremily nice more people have started doing it now
to rip map files from ff's and can therefore be used and abused by people to steal others map files
getting on top of the situation now is probibly going to be the best thing before it all get completly out of hand so much that the admins on ugx and the ugx team members/chat moderators probibly wont be able to get it under controll again just look at some very good maps out there like quizz for example people will want that map file and wont stop at anything to get it we as a coumity put effert into our content and making them to the best that we can im sure all mappers who currently map for waw know's its not a 2 min job its time consuming getting everything right even scripting thats a lot of hard work (to me it is) the person who makes maps tend to feel accomplished by there work now imagine some *person* coming along and taking that away from the mapper its going to make the mapper feel "hey why do i bother bringing good content to the comunity when people are going to steal it" in my opionion if this is left unseen to (by that i mean rules and enforcing them rules) everything will get turned upside down and cold possibly even make the comunity "die" (i know others have different opionions and i respct that) but these people who rip map files and steals them from others have no intension of giving credit or asking for permission and then post it like its there work and its just a complete shame that people feel the need to do such act its dissapointing....as for the script's being taken thats low but not as low as stealing map files that people spend months and in some rare sercumstancers a year and then someone in 5 mins steals it edits it etc and takes full credit thats wrong and messed up.......nice to see that something is being done against such act to me its classed as theft may not be to some of you..........enforcing rules for this is going to re-assure people that there maps and scripts etc are extra safe from rippers knowing that in the end the person who violates what ever rules get put in place is going to be punished........


many thanks to Delta and treminaor for doing something about this

i carnt stress enough how this topic makes me feel....lets hope this is eliminated before it starts

EDIT: the rules quoted above are perfectly fine in my opionion them rules will be just fine nothing against them
please please please get said rules in place before someone dose such things

agreed this has to stop idk why people would want to steal peoples scripts

Map / Script
Distributing / using a ripped map / script needs permission from the original author first.
He needs to be aware of all changes and where the file will be hosted. (+ has to agree obviously )
Proper credit with direct link to the original map / script

I have a question regarding this.

There is a custom map made from another engine which I would like to port into WaW. What do I do regarding permission if I want to ask the original creator (of that custom map) about it, but he has been inactive for a long time?

Can't I just list him in the credits AND give a link to his original custom map without having to ask him?

So there are currently some discussions about "ripping" maps.

This includes ripping a map from a .ff file from ANY call of duty game AND ripping/converting a map from another engine to Call of Duty World at War.
I also had to read over and over again that someone stole this script or this gun from someone else.

Ripping maps from non-Call of Duty maps(like L4D2's) i'm fine with as long as its done in a lawful way. Ripping from pre-existing CUSTOM maps in WaW i think is fine as long as you have verifiable proof of permission from the original author. But if the author is okay with it then chances are they'd just give them whatever to whoever asks before they could rip the assets in the first place.

Tool:
Any ripping tool is disallowed on the site.

I agree with this. I don't think ripping tools need to be hosted or even linked by anyone on the site. There are plenty of other ways to get a simple FastFile extractor.

i'm not saying that they are bad, they really aren't. There are completely legitimate reasons for wanting to extract a fastfiles like recovering old weaponfiles or scripts. People just like to abuse the fact that it lets them get other peoples assets.

Map / Script
Distributing / using a ripped map / script needs permission from the original author first.
He needs to be aware of all changes and where the file will be hosted. (+ has to agree obviously )
Proper credit with direct link to the original map / script

I think this is just common sense. People should get credit for the time and effort they spent on something. Its the very least someone could do for using someone elses maps/scripts.

Reporting
Any reported conflicts need to be solved asap.
Until it's not solved any download links will be removed.
If this happens too often - we take the right to ban the account or disallow distribution on our sites.

And again i agree. This is only fair to whoever made the assets.

agreed everything you said here this needs to stop with the scirpt part,  for the .map ripping i don't think that's right because there is really good map's out there that people are just going to take the .map too and really call there own also if this do this just to get old maps that are really good but nothing from a game like bo1-bo2 and someone would like too add it i still don't think its right

Thanks Delta + Trem for pointing this out  

Edit: It has been made clear that no one is planning to release a map decompiler/ripper for WaW, so this is no longer a relevant reply but I will leave it here since my opinion on this matter will never change.

I think the idea of ripping someone else's d3dbsp file into a usable .map file is absolutely disgraceful and highly disrespectful to the wishes of the average mapper. Putting myself in a mapper's shoes there is no way I would spend 4-6 months on a map only to have some noob with a ripping tool he found on Google take my map, edit it, and reupload it somewhere else with a different name and no credit to me.

I can see it now.... someone releases "Seelow v2.0". Fans of the original map think "Wow, CoDMapper made a redesign of his classic map!" You click the topic and see it's by some scrub named ZombieLover13371995killu who took the map file and added some section from Nact Der Toten Walder to the back of it and the starting area of Der Reise somewhere in the middle. The cinematic intro is broken and zombies are derping everywhere because the guy has no fucking clue what he is even doing. The day that happens is the day we finally have something worse than boxmaps.

And what if someone releases a private beta of their map to "the wrong guy"? How would you react if you logged in 2 days later to see a recompiled version of it posted in the Releases section by someone else?

As a scripter it annoys me to no end that anyone can just have a look at your work regardless of if it's in a fastfile or not - maps and menu files are all we have left that are still encrypted. I mean even Tom_Bmx at one point said he would not release any type of map file extractor because he knew it would be bad for the community... I think anyone who is actually on the verge of releasing such a tool needs to stop and think seriously about the demon they are about to release.

If you are going to release such a tool, at LEAST give the mappers some way of protecting their maps from it. For instance if they haven't placed a specific object with a certain targetname ("ripping_allowed"?) in the mapfile via Radiant, the extractor would refuse to rip it. Or limit it to official 3arc map bsp files like Shi No Numa or Der Riese. And make sure you code the app in a non-.NET language (or any other easily-decompilable language) so that someone else can't just decompile your program and edit it to rip any d3dbsp file.

I strongly feel that a tool for this should never be released. There is no need for it in this community - if someone is seriously irresponsible enough not to keep a backup of their map file or otherwise lose it somehow then it's not worth compromising every single map ever made for the last 6 years just for your own sake. That's incredibly selfish.

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For ripping scripts I think our current policy is fine - if we get a complaint that a script has been stolen we look into it when we have time and try to determine if anyone is lying and who deserves credit. When it is proven that a script was taken the map link is removed until the issue has been resolved.

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As far as banning a specific tool I think unless something about said tool is illegal, I would allow it unless the community unites against the purpose of the tool. If the majority of modders hate the idea of a map extractor then by all means we will do our best to keep that tool and anything produced with it off of this site.

In my opinion ripping is bad, but I think it should be allowed for ripping stock maps and stuff.

. Ripping from pre-existing CUSTOM maps in WaW i think is fine........no its not its down right lazy and fucked up to even think that someone can do this nobody should be ripping any custom map's bsp to get map files people need to learn to respect mappers end of no and's if's or but's

ZombieLover13371995killu is back to his old ways I see

this hole ripping grbage is making me seriously consider finishing my map that i have planned and put a ton of effert and time into the more people continue to talk about this and have that attitude like this "i dont care if people steal my assets" that right there is the sign of a immature person who dont have respect for others work this is outragous if this is allowed ill no longer develope maps for the comunity lets be honest someome steals the map file and edits it and gets it unrecogniseable by anyone then that itself is just low and lazy.....if people want to make remakes of maps then they need to learn some mapping skills and learn to stop ripping maps coz im getting sick and tired of reading about this subject in chat its doing my head in and making me reconsider my map end of

Since apparently some people thought this was an official declaration of new rules for the site, I have edited Delta's post to make it even MORE clear that these were merely suggestions for discussion, not new rules.

I also spoke to some people in the community regarding COD map ripping/decompiling and here is what I've found:

So there is currently some discussion going on in the UGX Chat Room and forum about "ripping" maps from Source games and taking scripts from people's IWDs in the community.

This includes ripping a map from a .ff file from ANY call of duty game AND ripping/converting a map from another engine to Call of Duty World at War.

This was just a rumor started by certain unknown people. No one in this community is currently working on a map decompiler that will result in stolen maps. There are certain people who have ripped "entities" from map files, but this is not something to be concerned about. The entities in a map are things like script_structs and script_models that are needed by the scripts of the map. These entities are stored as plain-text in the fastfiles and also can be dumped using a console command in the game itself! So this is nothing new and nothing to be worried about. Even if a decompiler was made for .d3dbsp files, there is currently no way to rip the .d3dbsp files from the fastfiles themselves and it would not be easy as they are compiled, not just zipped. The Value BSP extractor that people are using on L4D2 maps cannot be adapted for use on COD .d3dbsp files - they are different formats, even though the engine is similar. TL;DR; there is no threat of map decompiling currently in this community and therefore these is no need to have any more paranoid discussions on how it should be prevented at this time.

I don't mean to sound desperate for an answer when I say this, but could someone reply to the question that I asked here on my previous post in this thread?

I have a question regarding this.

There is a custom map made from another engine which I would like to port into WaW. What do I do regarding permission if I want to ask the original creator (of that custom map) about it, but he has been inactive for a long time?

Can't I just list him in the credits AND give a link to his original custom map without having to ask him?

Yes, that sounds fine to me. I assume it's a Source engine map, right? Those ripping tools were made by Valve themselves so I would think it's fine.