How to co map? Map errors?

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by ultakitten
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I there a way for me and my friends to make a custom zombies map at the same time or together?

Also how do I fix these types of errors, like animscripts dog_init ( I get these when I try to load my maps )
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You can work together using prefabs, like the perk machines. They are prefabs, but really are just map files. Start a map, select an area, make it a prefab. Do the same for the rest of the map. Then you can work on different areas of the same map at the same time. Update each other's map/prefab files as you go.
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I hadn't realized that prefabs "update". Nice! Even I learn something on someone elses post

Well yeah, they are just references to another map file, so it will pull in that map file. You have to reopen the map file that contains the prefabs of course after updating/copying in the updated map file. I use prefabs as much as possible, then add detail, on the next higher map, and try to keep from stamping so I can make global changes.
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 05:49:02 am by MakeCents
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I there a way for me and my friends to make a custom zombies map at the same time or together?

CONS OF PREFABS:
Sending prefabs back and forward is a chore and having them in exatly the same folderlocations, editing them makes more hassle for both parts not to mention in the end to ensure they all uses the same texture as the main map instead of berlin_trim or makin_trim or okinawa_trim that essentially is an identical image with different names will make you open every induvidual prefab. It require editing anyways since find/replace texture only work on 1 .map file at the time and prefabs count as seperate mapfile inside it so it wont carry over and that is why they are useful for obvious reasons but is the most counterproductive part of coop mapping.

PROS OF LAYERS:
I highly reccomend pressing L in radiant for layers and by simply having the exact same map file that is the only thing you need, both can work on each own part in the map then paste the sections together since it will keep the exact origin, also no need to send a new edited prefeb if making a change to it as the layer you paste will be the absolute latest thing you built. (something a prefab cannot do plus needs to be rearranged after loading it in THIS SHOULD BE IN CONS but i need to explain it here) to ensure any drastical change wont overlap i reccomend taking the main file and work for it over night or cuple days then pass it over back and forward. you simply select the whole layer you have in older version CTRL+C CTRL+V into official newer file recieved and DONE its synchronized rather then send additional prefabs you might altered in the process.

CONCLUSION:
Managing 2 layers or 20 layers inside 1 mapfile is faster and easier then managing 2 prefabs or 20 prefabs additional to the 1 mapfile +20 mapfiles you already have made and sent over as they now are prefabs. Sure MASSIVE changes will be harder to make but that is why you plan it as you go for what will fit best or dont start until you have a good enough idea of what both people will be doing on the file induvidually.
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 06:35:19 pm by RadimaX
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CONS OF PREFABS:

(something a prefab cannot do and each single prefab needs to be rearranged after loading it in THIS SHOULD BE IN CONS but i need to explain it here lol)
Think there may be some slight confusion on prefabs here... maybe.

We run into the texture thing from time to time, but right click>enter prefab, center mouse button on the texture you want, look at it, then right click > exit is pretty easy.

Layers is interesting, but with google drive, syncing the files, it can be seamless, when you use tortoise svn and click update. Thats what we did on ORBiT anyway. No need to worry about did I put it in the right folder, although I don't see how that is hard. When the map doesn't update, you will figure it out, lol.

Prefabs do not need arranged after loading it. Just like inserting a perk prefab, you have one map file that is the over all map. Then you have prefabs in the maps file. These prefabs update as you both have a complete map file and do not move. At any point where overlapping becomes an issue or difficulty to edit, you can at that point stamp, and/or start with the layer production.

The real issue for layers for us was the map prefabs were moving. We did not decide on layout, plus ran into errors due to things being too far apart, so without the overall map to orchestrate that positioning for use when we updated each other, we would have lost a lot of time and effort.


I mean to each his own, really. I like the layers option, but I really wanted to clear up the cons you had about prefabs is all.
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my recommendation dont include google drives or sync stuff or third party programs/plugins, if prefabs needs that it goes without saying its more hassle then pressing L, i think you are missunderstanding the origin of prefab. if you make a .map file lets say a room or house while the other person have the map loading it and repositioning it is still required as pasting from a layer will retain the position down to the smallest grid, also unstamping sometimes makes it all go off grid and require reqlignment especially if it creates leaks in doorframes if the prefab have portals so yes each to their own but the method i described is more efficient and faster if you want to coop with 2 or 3 or 4 mappers like ive done last year.

each time we used prefabs it created new problems rather then solving anything and i would recommend this problematic way of doing coop mapping if it was less problimatic but in this scenario pressing L is the best way of working together on a map and that is why i responded also if you dont believe me i am a mapper giving you advice on mapping so disregard it or use this information to work more flawlessly together on making a map.
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 07:01:44 pm by RadimaX
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Sorry charlie, still don't understand each other do we...? I do not copy and paste map files for several reasons. One, strange angles don't like it, the freak out sometimes, length and width. Two, sometimes radiant crashes on me when trying to select a large amount. Three, your auto kvps will break if you have multiples linked to one ent just like stamping a prefab like that, which I use for randomizing positioning on buildables, auto doors, traps, and what not, in even more prefabs.

Start a map. Insert a prefab, or two if you like. Then enter that prefab, make some changes, exit the prefab. Its still in the same place. Or even just open that prefabs map file, then change it, then open the whole map file again, it is still in the same place with your changes. At no time do you copy and or paste anything, ever. This is an over simplification of course.

And yes yours does not include those things google and stuff, but with them, even using layers is easier. If its too hard then don't use it but I wanted to share how we made our lives easier.

You are a great mapper. Love your detail. Just trying to clear up confusion in the statements made.
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 07:16:01 pm by MakeCents
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who is charlie? if i make you 14 prefabs of house and church and fountain and send over for you how would you know where it goes explain to me how you would place it correctly like intended, you will need to load prefab type Fountainprefab.map then church3.map ExtraLarge_FountainV2.map and oh by the way they are all in different folders... so how can you place them down to the 0.25 unit perfection? also how is sending 14 prefabs + 1 mapfile better then 1 mapfile with some layers? if you work on a map for a year i can take your advice but everything you just explained sounds more complicated then pressing L to be honest and more then half of it you can avoid doing by using layers anyway.
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 07:28:38 pm by RadimaX
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Lol, it's from an old commercial. Charlie tuna I think... anyway

You don't start with prefabs, you start with your main map file. It's easiest to develop some sort of layout, or separation of areas, then you select things in those areas, and create a prefab from them. Once your main map file is just a bunch of prefabs, each person then works in their prefabs. You can still work in the main map if you like, inserting more prefabs such as your house or church, and then just update everyone with the main map file which holds the coordinates for those items, and of course the prefabs. (of course only one person can work in the main map file at a time, the lead mapper, or data will be lost, not too hard to merge though if that happens and you kept a backup)
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 07:29:52 pm by MakeCents
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you make the assumption all the prefabs are already in place? when you add a prefab you still have to first of all send it over, then realign it, then in the end make sure it uses the same textures as the main file thats 3 additional steps privided its never edited for 2 3 or 4 people working on the map, if you decide to update it there goes another prefab distrebution for 3 people that have to post it in a different folder not counting the mapfile itself, if you want to know more reasons why L is superior to prefab join the chat and i can tell you all about it but arguing over it here wont help him coop on a map any better so you might aswell stop it now makecents. Here is a visual representation that might help you understand.

Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 07:57:43 pm by RadimaX
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I'm not arguing superiority, superiority is based on understanding anyway, which I think this misunderstanding is ironically proof of. Any method can be better but without understanding, its useless. Only thing I am saying is that you don't have to align things or do all that extra work you keep saying. If you did, I would not recommend it, that is insane.


"prefabs are in place", That is not an assumption, that is a fact or a requirement for prefab coop mapping to work. Either each participant has a complete main map file with the coordinates of each sub map or prefab, Or they just insert their new prefabs into their working map/prefab file. As each mapper updates there sections then they can share it with each other and put it in the prefabs folder, maybe in a project name sub folder for clarity (should be agreed on when the main mapper sets it up), when each participant opens the main map, they will get the others updates. No alignment is necessary. The main map, or their main prefab file holds that information. No further work needs done.

You make changes to your map file/ prefab, share it with everyone. Then they paste it into that projects sub folder, you open the main map file, done. That's it. No positioning/alignment is necessary.


tudark and I have complete copies of ORBiT, always have. This method is really really easy. As easy as installing the T4M mod. We have 9 sectors, each is a prefab, with 2 or more prefabs in each of those. We probably have 50 prefabs for everything or more. Textures I guess could be concerning if every texture wasn't custom like ours... but still easily fixed with a little communication.


If you want me to make something, I will, and post it. then I will update one prefab at a time and you will see how all you do is paste into your folder, and then open radiant and you are updated.

Or not, I get you don't like the prefab method, that's cool.
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when you open a layer you can still see the base map file in relation to what you are working on but if you open a prefab guess what you can see? oh wait nothing apart from the induvidual prefab itself gg wp can you teach me more tricks that would waste my time in radiant?
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 08:06:38 pm by RadimaX
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Nice image, lol, I like that.

I made a crappier one showing a similar simplified break down we used:




That is true, you get trade offs with both ways, that's why we have layered prefabs so if you need more of the map, you go to the next higher prefab. If we were to do ORBiT that way, it would not have worked. The doors, lifts, vacuum tubes, and many other things, would have broken during the copy and paste action. But perhaps layers is easier if you just do the mapping, and no doors or scripts at all at first...
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 08:17:36 pm by MakeCents
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Becouse how efficient your usage of prefabs is and how little time it takes do you mind please giving me the full filenames of all the prefabs used and their locations in the folders then the final orgigin position in the mapfile since layers kind of have all this preset you dont really need to know any of it but thats is why im asking. Just curious how fast and efficient it is to save it as a file name then send that to another person then the prefab you named and saved is loaded etc...i can count how long it will take and see if having a layer of all that stuff that require 1 second is faster. So far its looking good.
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 08:45:59 pm by RadimaX
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Yup, I think that image sums it up fairly nicely. We disagree on what we prefer, is all.


full filenames of all the prefabs used and their locations in the folders then the final orgigin position in the mapfile
Edit: and that is still not how it works  :'(. I'm gonna stop now, cause I use layers, and you use prefabs, we just diversified differently.
Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 08:51:41 pm by MakeCents

 

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