With the recent shootings in America, I'd like to bring up the topic of gun laws to be discussed and debated about. If you haven't heard, here's a link to pretty much a gist of what happened: http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/america_just_had_its_third_school_shooting_of_the_day
I'd appreciate if this became an actual discussion btw because this is always a topic people get very touchy about so please avoid making this a "Let's complain about everything in America" post. You can wait until some troll makes that very topic within a day or 2, but I'd like a real back and forth debate.
Links for evidence would be appreciated, but this is the internet so there's no saying what will happen
Make sure to at least explain your position please.

judging by several stories ive read in the news today...

hes prob not too far off the mark lol

1 shooting in Texas and 1 in Arizona IIRC. It's getting fucking ridiculous that people can't keep their shit together.

1 shooting in Texas and 1 in Arizona IIRC. It's getting fucking ridiculous that people can't keep their shit together.

weird thing is, I understand both sides, but one is clearly being more sensible lol

nearly every brutal killing weve seen in the USA has been by someone who either illegally obtained the gun, or was not even the guns "real owner" - usually stolen from parents or bought on the web

So current gun controls are just circumvented. They need to realize that. you can still play with your guns, - at licensed, monitored and secure - places where its deemed acceptable - ie - a shooting range

you do not need a high power assault rifle in your living room ( you especially do not need 5, plus those 10 handguns and that sniper ), especially when you live with an unstable 15 year old Racist KKK supporting, mental health suffering, learning disabled, jumped up pshyco who "always kept to himself, was socially awkward and expressed on several occasions to be depressive and a danger" - as all the reports always say lol

I can sum it up in one sentence...

"Guns don't kill people, people with no regard for human life kill people."

I can sum it up in one sentence...

"Guns don't kill people, people with no regard for human life kill people."

( or have mental issues or learning problems meaning they literally dont understand the difference between right / wrong / life / death)

"using" guns

that "sane" people get hold of, then the lunatics eventually steal them and go on a rampage. And hundreds of school children die as a result

anyway it doesnt matter if it was the gun or the person that has the "ill intent" - the entire situation could have been prevented and people would be 90% more likely to survive, if he couldnt get hold of a gun. He could try his luck with a knife sure. And get his ass beaten and tasered by angry cops, and people can actually stand a chance of running away lol

When they "could" just keep their guns at a range, which is protected by security at all times - so if any lunatics with a history of mental illness and depression suddenly decide to take lives - they can actually be stopped, before they get to go on their little rampage. Then when you want to use it, you go there, you show proof of ID, then go shoot some stuff - then lock the gun back up - Coz frankly, americans are proving more and more they are "incapable" of locking them up "properly", or these nutters wouldnt keep getting hold of them - so clearly they should be giving these guns back to "professionals" at the end of use

I have a take on this anyway. America "wants" the trouble they get from this. Or there wouldnt be 2000 videos on youtube of fucktards walking around with ARs in broad daylight infront of cops to "purposefully" entice the cop over just to give him a hard time about how its "legal". Theres no need to walk down the street with a assault rifle, no sane person would think this way

How are cops meant to find the dangerous killers and stop them "before" people die, when they are blending into a crowd of "not dangerous" but "retarded" teenage youtube wanna bes trying to get a rise out of cops walking round with hand grenades and assault rifles? by walking round saying to them they have no right to ask "why" im walking round with a gun and clip that can kill about 30 people before anyone can respond?

I say the situations out of hand, and pro gun people are ignoring the obvious arguments coz they "want to play with their toys" and "feel cool" by showing off their gun collections on facebook and in their living rooms


fact is

pro gun - wants guns everywhere and have a problem with anyone who dares to even question that - completely unwilling to compromise. They want guns, wherever they want guns, and will not consider even for a second the opposing argument. Ive seen some of these youubers go to schools to pick up their kids with m16s just so they can kick off when the school "quite rightfully" shows concern...

against guns - only ask they are kept off the streets and out of public and schools. Still more than happy for you to go to licensed places where you can still have your "fun", under the watchful eye of professionals and security in a place you can actually be stopped, should your mind go to that "dark place" in a moment of depression

"using" guns

that "sane" people get hold of, then the lunatics eventually steal them and go on a rampage. And hundreds of school children die as a result

When they "could" just keep their guns at a range, which is protected by security at all times - so if any lunatics with a history of mental illness and depression suddenly decide to take lives - they can actually be stopped, before they get to go on their little rampage. Then when you want to use it, you go there, you show proof of ID, then go shoot some stuff - then lock the gun back up - Coz frankly, americans are proving more and more they are "incapable" of locking them up "properly", or these nutters wouldnt keep getting hold of them - so clearly they should be giving these guns back to "professionals" at the end of use

The problem with that is, we don't use guns ONLY for the purpose of "fun". We use them for hunting, protection, along with recreation, and simply because we have the right to. Your solution would defeat the purpose of all of these reasons, because you can't get to YOUR gun if you NEED it for protection of yourself and others.

We need the following in order to reduce unnecessary violence whilst still retaining our inalable right as Americans to own and use firrarms.

1. Minors and adults alike receive proper training for when to use weapons, and how to safely and properly use weapons.
2. Parents need to keep their firearms in check, NOT locked up. You as a parent need to train YOUR kids not to touch a weapon unless supervised and trained. It is your responsibility to keep your weapons out of the wrong hands.
3. Armed police officers in schools and colleges. Train staff and students on the proper emergancy technicues if there is an intruder. Remove the "no gun" signs from the buildings that have them. THE CRIMINALS WON'T FOLLOW THAT SIGN, so you need weapons to protect yourself and others.
4. More supervision of illegal gun trafic.
5. Stricter punishments for people who cause crimes like this. Place the severely mentally disabled people in help programs and hospitals and if necessary prisions.

Remove and ban all guns. They are bad. If nobody has a gun, then nobody needs a gun.

stricter background checks

False. Criminals do and always will obtain weapons illegally. This will only do more harm.

Put a "no guns" sign on all public buildings.

No. The criminals and mentally disabled will not follow that rule, boom... Everybody in the building is dead.

End of rant. I don't want this to become another political debait so I will stop there. Hopefully y'all see my pov.
Plus this is really off topic of the original post.... Sorry

The problem with that is, we don't use guns ONLY for the purpose of "fun". We use them for hunting, protection, along with recreation, and simply because we have the right to

I agree with a lot of that, but regardless of what you use a weapon for its not "needed" to get through life. We here in the UK do just fine, and never have 100s of dead school kids on the news - we have no guns in the hands of the "public". And its only "pro gun" america that thinks they "need" or have a "right" to them. Coz they refuse change and attack anyone who tries to reason this, even if it comes from those who "do" have the authority to have them "legally" banned - leading to endless controversy. The facts are, those against gun control, are admitting - they dont give a shit how many die, how many kids are slaughtered, because "they need" their AR15 with scope and hi powered armor piercing bullets for "shooting rats"
those "for" gun control - are doing it solely to prevent any one else dying, or at least seriously reducing the chances, coz they are willing to change for the "greater good" and protection of innocent lives.

Even our police dont need them, and can "survive" easily with tasers, where as america is all "dead cop" news and anger at any that pull the trigger first ( granted 90% of the latest examples, cop was in the wrong, i get that, still the other 10% )

2. Parents need to keep their firearms in check, NOT locked up. You as a parent need to train YOUR kids not to touch a weapon unless supervised and trained. It is your responsibility to keep your weapons out of the wrong hands.

Kids can be dumb man, going by the logic "make them learn" is just asking to be disappointed, and putting "other" people children at risk. Fuck when i was 12 i shot my buddy with a what i thought was a BB gun, was a air rifle and a pronto trip to hospital to remove a metal pellet from his eye...

All 5 of your points scream " rather than remove the danger, we just need more heroes thatll walk in front of armed gun men to - control - the situation" - hello school massacres. Gun safety is not the issue, they know how to use them "safely", they have just reached a point in their lives theyve snapped, and someone has foolishly allowed them to have access to a weapon, leading to kids getting killed. No matter what way you put it
Also I dont know where those last three things you commented came from but they were not me or in this post? lol

End of rant. I don't want this to become another political debait so I will stop there. Hopefully y'all see my pov.
Plus this is really off topic of the original post.... Sorry

Agreed

( or have mental issues or learning problems meaning they literally dont understand the difference between right / wrong / life / death)

"using" guns

that "sane" people get hold of, then the lunatics eventually steal them and go on a rampage. And hundreds of school children die as a result

anyway it doesnt matter if it was the gun or the person that has the "ill intent" - the entire situation could have been prevented and people would be 90% more likely to survive, if he couldnt get hold of a gun. He could try his luck with a knife sure. And get his ass beaten and tasered by angry cops, and people can actually stand a chance of running away lol

When they "could" just keep their guns at a range, which is protected by security at all times - so if any lunatics with a history of mental illness and depression suddenly decide to take lives - they can actually be stopped, before they get to go on their little rampage. Then when you want to use it, you go there, you show proof of ID, then go shoot some stuff - then lock the gun back up - Coz frankly, americans are proving more and more they are "incapable" of locking them up "properly", or these nutters wouldnt keep getting hold of them - so clearly they should be giving these guns back to "professionals" at the end of use

I have a take on this anyway. America "wants" the trouble they get from this. Or there wouldnt be 2000 videos on youtube of fucktards walking around with ARs in broad daylight infront of cops to "purposefully" entice the cop over just to give him a hard time about how its "legal". Theres no need to walk down the street with a assault rifle, no sane person would think this way

How are cops meant to find the dangerous killers and stop them "before" people die, when they are blending into a crowd of "not dangerous" but "retarded" teenage youtube wanna bes trying to get a rise out of cops walking round with hand grenades and assault rifles? by walking round saying to them they have no right to ask "why" im walking round with a gun and clip that can kill about 30 people before anyone can respond?

I say the situations out of hand, and pro gun people are ignoring the obvious arguments coz they "want to play with their toys" and "feel cool" by showing off their gun collections on facebook and in their living rooms


fact is

pro gun - wants guns everywhere and have a problem with anyone who dares to even question that - completely unwilling to compromise. They want guns, wherever they want guns, and will not consider even for a second the opposing argument. Ive seen some of these youubers go to schools to pick up their kids with m16s just so they can kick off when the school "quite rightfully" shows concern...

against guns - only ask they are kept off the streets and out of public and schools. Still more than happy for you to go to licensed places where you can still have your "fun", under the watchful eye of professionals and security in a place you can actually be stopped, should your mind go to that "dark place" in a moment of depression

I swear to God... Harry and I are on the same level on this discussion for once. I was gonna type like 3 paragraphs about what a robbery would be like in a country with guns vs one without guns and he said the same damn thing as I was gonna say.
Now, I'm sorry for getting this thread derailed so much. Lot of shit goes down when I comment normally so I'm not 100% surprised   I think I'll make a topic on the General Discussion so we can further this conversation while keeping it relevant because I find this a very intriguing topic. I'd say MZslayer and Harrybo should just copy or move their comments to the new thread so we can keep a basis for the debate. Also, I think General Discussion needs a debate group from now on

not a bad idea, although itll end in a argument im sure lol. No matter how good our intentions

With the recent shootings in America, I'd like to bring up the topic of gun laws to be discussed and debated about. If you haven't heard, here's a link to pretty much a gist of what happened: http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/america_just_had_its_third_school_shooting_of_the_day
I'd appreciate if this became an actual discussion btw because this is always a topic people get very touchy about so please avoid making this a "Let's complain about everything in America" post. You can wait until some troll makes that very topic within a day or 2, but I'd like a real back and forth debate.
Links for evidence would be appreciated, but this is the internet so there's no saying what will happen
Make sure to at least explain your position please.

Damnit Harry! I JUST said I was making the damn topic!

Damnit Harry! I JUST said I was making the damn topic!

lol sorry

lol sorry

Just delete it, but make sure to provide that link so people know what happened. You might want to delete our casual comments too.

Just delete it, but make sure to provide that link so people know what happened. You might want to delete our casual comments too.

i have a "merge topic" button but not sure how to use it lol

says it wants the target topics "id" i have no idea where to find it tho, unless its the 8763.0 i see in the url of this post?

ha ha, i did it


however for the topic, I really dont think i can make more of a point? lol

to me its like how they hand out plastic beer bottles at concerts, to reduce the "risk" if someone does get violent

"preventative measures"

the alternative :

Leaving them with glass bottles and saying its their own fault if they kill some completely innocent bystander, the glass bottle is innocent, glass bottles dont kill people


I think pro gun people forget, its not the killer that losese here, its the victims, and more often than not lately its been peoples kids. Then after, when the parents join the anti gun campaigns, the pro gun people go back to publically humilliating them and making stupid facebook memes and comments like

"my gun must be faulty - hasnt killed anyone all day!"

which if you ask me is complete disrespect to the victims and their family's, who are just trying to do what they think is the right thing, its like saying "your loss doesnt matter" - and the reason being "because... reasons.... I need gun, yea , cant live without 15 assault files, 2 shotties, a desert eagle, 16 handguns, 2000 rounds of tank armor busting hi caliber bullets that explode and contract on impact for maximum devastating power!"

I notice this a lot wit USA / UK. USA has a show about these guys that make weapons like swords and stuff, really good show granted. But then in between were adverts for just some random sword making company. With some 15 stone money obsesses american business man showing off his "broadswords"

coz america - you need this broad sword, look it can decapitate this lump of meat i have hanging right here - proceeds to attack a hanging boar

then a human shaped piece of meat on a stand? Which he then ran at and stabbed, to demonstrate the "raw penetrating power, any good swordsmen is looking for!"

You dont need that, you dont need guns. Your media has convinced you that you do, and those who are set in there ways are just that - set in their ways, and unwilling to accept change no matter what the reason.

To stop violence, the first thing that needs to go is the tools. Let people duke it out with their fists again like the good old days




My mum used to put the child proof latch on the kitchen knife drawer for example. To protect me from hurting myself, but also to prevent me endangering others. People often forget that parents usually feel responsible for their children s crimes

Its no different to having controlled "substances", because although the substance itself is no threat, if handled wrong, rightly, wrongly, accidentally, imcompitently or badly due to mental pressures and problems effecting you ( family deaths, bitter divorces, having your kids taken away, your kids dying in a school shooting, you name it ) though it "becomes" a threat. Then the only person in control then is the person holding it. Just "expecting" them to be responsible coz "you" are is ludicrous, and why this same nightmare keeps repeating itself. People will always act badly / irresponsibly eventually

Who here hasnt had a suicidal thought at some point in their lives?

Who here hasnt been so angry at something, theyve wrongfully lashed out at a friend or stranger?

I know none of us, were human after all, I know ive done it, and all i can say is on some of those occasions. Thank holy hell i didnt have a gun, not for my sake, but for what i would have done in the "spur of the moment" but regretted later

Regrets wont bring dead children back