UGX-Mods
Everything Else => General Discussion => Topic started by: natesmithzombies on February 07, 2016, 09:19:42 pm
- This topic has changed entirely to a poll on whether or not a rating system should be implemented in custom maps.
Simply place your vote!
-
We've had this discussion before
This would in theory condemn any map even I make now to the "first maps" section - which would make it automatically associated with a box map - not just me, but in fact a lot of members who spend years working on their maps
For example, stevies first map that wasn't for the contest was oil rig, although ultimately industrial estate came out before it
So at least one of those two maps would also have been condemned to this
-
We've had this discussion before
This would in theory condemn any map even I make now to the "first maps" section - which would make it automatically associated with a box map - not just me, but in fact a lot of members who spend years working on their maps
For example, stevies first map that wasn't for the contest was oil rig, although ultimately industrial estate came out before it
So at least one of those two maps would also have been condemned to this
Yes but we've been through this before. 'First maps' is a euphemism for 'Garbage maps', it doesn't necessarily have to be someone's first map. Hell, it could be their 10th map - if it's still crap it goes in the 'First maps' section. If someone's first map is good then obviously they can go straight into the proper maps section.
Anyway I've been banging this drum for months now and nothing ever happens with it, I've also been asking for a simple 10 star rating system for all releases but alas that's fallen on deaf ears too (or I get told there's no point because that feature will be in the 'upcoming' UGX Launcher...I still see no reason why we can't have both, or better still link them.)
-
Yes but we've been through this before. 'First maps' is a euphemism for 'Garbage maps', it doesn't necessarily have to be someone's first map. Hell, it could be their 10th map - if it's still crap it goes in the 'First maps' section. If someone's first map is good then obviously they can go straight into the proper maps section.
Anyway I've been banging this drum for months now and nothing ever happens with it, I've also been asking for a simple 10 star rating system for all releases by alas that's fallen on deaf ears too (or I get told there's no point because that feature will be in the 'upcoming' UGX Launcher...I still see no reason why we can't have both, or better still link them.)
i dunno, I mean who decides? I see people shit all over even good maps and praise the utter crap
My experience with rating systems also brings me doubts, as certain people exist solely for the purpose of being malicious
Not just that, what respectable person here will even enter that section and discover a "gem in the rough"
I thought this was the reason we had reviewers, read the review to decide if it's worth it rather than by some arbitrary score people will just abuse
-
i dunno, I mean who decides? I see people shit all over even good maps and praise the utter crap
My experience with rating systems also brings me doubts, as certain people exist solely for the purpose of being malicious
Not just that, what respectable person here will even enter that section and discover a "gem in the rough"
I thought this was the reason we had reviewers, read the review to decide if it's worth it rather than by some arbitrary score people will just abuse
If the mods can't distinguish between something that took 5 mins to make and something that has obviously had effort put into then I'm more than happy to fulfill that role, it doesn't take a genius to see that something like 'Box Sniper One Window NGT Challenge Cube' should go in the 'New Mapper' section and something like Herrenhaus or Leviathan should go in the proper map section - it's a disgrace they are even in the same forum subsection IMO (but then again what do I know?)
The rating system would only be able to be used by members with 20 or more posts (or w/e number admin chooses) and would be across the entire releases section, not just the 'New/First Mappers' section (I think that's what you were implying with your 'gem in the rough' comment?).
And just because we have reviewers (who let's face it, suck balls - I'm looking at you Tomikaze >:() doesn't mean we can't have a rating system too. Anyway I'm wasting my breath because I've said all this before many times and nothing happens. We'll just keep it how it is with box maps galore. :)
-
The reviews are so damn lengthy half the time. Thats why I never read them.
Here is a new idea then: Implement a rating system and only map reviewers can review the maps. Now map reviewers have purpose other than writing witty novels for a map review.
firstly you could just look at the over all score and summary, and they are generally like 1 page, that is no excessive
But the map reviewers deciding what should go where I could agree with - just not any old user regardless of the 20 post count restrictions, I got past that within. 4 days of joining
-
just not any old user regardless of the 20 post count restrictions, I got past that within. 4 days of joining
So what's wrong with that? I don't understand? Besides everyone and their mother is a map reviewer these days anyway.
-
So what's wrong with that? I don't understand? Besides everyone and their mother is a map reviewer these days anyway.
the "point" is just passing a spam check does not mean someone can be trusted to have a true reflection on people's work. If you can pass it in 4 days you can still be and blind dumb evil hater here just to - to quote a member - "just rate everything a 1 coz I don't like the site" etc
-
the "point" is just passing a spam check does not mean someone can be trusted to have a true reflection on people's work. If you can pass it in 4 days you can still be and blind dumb evil hater here just to - to quote a member - "just Tate everything a 1 coz I don't like the site" etc
Yeh but that's life? What's the difference between those people leaving a negative comment on a map for no reason now or leaving a 1 star rating? Or perhaps a better idea would be any member with any kind of coloured rank? So mappers, scripters, reviewers, etc?
But the map reviewers deciding what should go where I could agree with - just not any old user regardless of the 20 post count restrictions, I got past that within. 4 days of joining
And I think you are getting mixed up with the 2 things here. The first proposition is to have a 'New Mapper section. The second proposition is to have a rating system. They are not connected in any way. You could not have the rating system in the 'New Mapper' section and just keep it for the 'proper' maps if that's better. The map reviewers (Nate's idea) would only be responsible for rating the maps (I think it should more than just reviewers though) not deciding what maps go where - that would up to the mods, or ideally me. :)
-
Only problem i see with this is a section for "Maps nobody will play" and a section for "Maps people will play"
because most people will want to play maps that they know are going to be good, and by having a section for first maps will ultimately get no attention.
-
Only problem i see with this is a section for "Maps nobody will play" and a section for "Maps people will play"
because most people will want to play maps that they know are going to be good, and by having a section for first maps will ultimately get no attention.
That's the idea...:poker:
-
That's the idea...:poker:
That's the wrong idea.... lol. How is anybody going to grow to be known in the community if their map gets no attention? ::)
-
That's the wrong idea.... lol. How is anybody going to grow to be known in the community if their map gets no attention? ::)
When they stop releasing crap..::)
I think you missed the point.
-
The reviews are so damn lengthy half the time. Thats why I never read them.
Here is a new idea then: Implement a rating system and only map reviewers can review the maps. Now map reviewers have purpose other than writing witty novels for a map review.
Reading a 1-page review: 5 minutes
DL'ing a map, playing it, finding out it's shit: 25 minutes
Choice is yours dude.
Anyway, I agree with Stevie about the ratings system. Although I'm not worried about too low of scores, but too high of scores. Standards in the zombies community are waaaaay too low. Prison Mission has 10 stars on ZM, and it's literally the worst map I ever played. Universal democracy is wrong, some people just don't deserve an opinion. Too many noobs shotgunning out "BEST MAP EVAR" (it's the first map they've played...)
Nonetheless, we need a rating system because reviewers can't get 'em all. I'm currently working on a (glowing) Das Herrenhaus review, but that's just one of the many maps currently out, and I've already missed many I'd have liked to review. Just not enough time, especially since I'm working on a map of my own.
Would be nice if UGX tracked an individual's downloads, and that was part of the criteria... so like 100 posts, 30 maps DL'd
-
You can pick out the good maps really easily just by pictures. Look at TheRelaxingEnd for example. He clearly doesn't make a video of boxmap 2.0. Why not just browse the "First Maps Section" for some gold just by a picture and well listed features?
Hue
-
Reading a 1-page review: 5 minutes
DL'ing a map, playing it, finding out it's shit: 25 minutes
Choice is yours dude.
Anyway, I agree with Stevie about the ratings system. Although I'm not worried about too low of scores, but too high of scores. Standards in the zombies community are waaaaay too low. Prison Mission has 10 stars on ZM, and it's literally the worst map I ever played. Universal democracy is wrong, some people just don't deserve an opinion. Too many noobs shotgunning out "BEST MAP EVAR" (it's the first map they've played...)
Nonetheless, we need a rating system because reviewers can't get 'em all. I'm currently working on a (glowing) Das Herrenhaus review, but that's just one of the many maps currently out, and I've already missed many I'd have liked to review. Just not enough time, especially since I'm working on a map of my own.
Would be nice if UGX tracked an individual's downloads, and that was part of the criteria... so like 100 posts, 30 maps DL'd
You're 'currently working' on a review? Damn, I didn't realise reviewers spent this long on them, anyway I digress.
A simple solution to the 'noobs can't be trusted' conundrum is like I said, any coloured ranked member can vote (from Famous Male Pornstars to Mapper Elites and everything in between) - I can't see how anyone would have opposition to that?
And the tracking downloads thing would be impossible since most maps are linked through Mega/Mediafire, etc and not through the site directly.
And I think people are still getting hung up on the name. I repeat 'First Mappers' or w/e it should be called is a EUPHEMISM, stop taking it literally. We all know it really means 'Shit Maps' but of course we can't have that as a section (sigh), it DOESN'T MATTER if it's your first or 100th map; if it's shit it goes there, if it's good it doesn't. End of.
-
You're 'currently working' on a review? Damn, I didn't realise reviewers spent this long on them, anyway I digress.
A simple solution to the 'noobs can't be trusted' conundrum is like I said, any coloured ranked member can vote (from Famous Male Pornstars to Mapper Elites and everything in between) - I can't see how anyone would have opposition to that?
And the tracking downloads thing would be impossible since most maps are linked through Mega/Mediafire, etc and not through the site directly.
And I think people are still getting hung up on the name. I repeat 'First Mappers' or w/e it should be called is a EUPHEMISM, stop taking it literally. We all know it really means 'Shit Maps' but of course we can't have that as a section (sigh), it DOESN'T MATTER if it's your first or 100th map; if it's shit it goes there, if it's good it doesn't. End of.
Rofl, by "working on" I mean started 30 min ago :lol:
The problem with colored names is that donators are included, and literally anyone with $3 can become a donator. But I digress. You are right about DL tracking, I didn't think of that.
Anyhow, the pro's of ratings outweight the con's.
-
When they stop releasing crap..::)
I think you missed the point.
Oh, now i think i did miss the point. If they are purposely releasing maps that shouldn't be released then i agree with that.
-
The problem with colored names is that donators are included, and literally anyone with $3 can become a donator.
And anyone with a Primary school level grasp of the English language can become a Map Reviewer but you don't hear me complaining. :troll:
If someone wants to donate $3 to leave a 1 star rating on a map then fair play to them I say. :)
Besides, I'm probably a prime target for people like that, I can already picture plenty of people rating Oil Rig a 1 because they think I'm a cunt, but you know what? I'll happily accept that if it means we get a rating system in place. :)
-
Besides, I'm probably a prime target for people like that, I can already picture plenty of people rating Oil Rig a 1 because they think I'm a cunt, but you know what? I'll happily accept that if it means we get a rating system in place. :)
I'm not sure why people would hate you when all you do is speak the truth about things.
On topic, the perfect system would be map reviews have to apply for the position with more than just making a review, like maybe you need to review a variety of maps and if the reviews reflect how good the Map actually is, they get the status and can then rate maps. As you guys already said mappers and higher ranking members (excluding donators) can rate them. The only problem is we already have a lot of reviewers and some donators would be able to accurately rate maps. Better than nothing I guess.
We do need a rating system regardless of how it happens.
-
IMO Stevie seems to have hit the nail on the head.
Can a moderator open a poll so that the community can vote for a ranking system and its rules? And if we hit "x" amount of votes can a system be implemented?
never added one before but I will try in a min when I hop back on shortly
-
never added one before but I will try in a min when I hop back on shortly
Added already
And if we hit "x" amount of votes can a system be implemented?
Also, its up to admins, if there will be one, so you need to wait for one of them to respond
-
I'd vote for a categorizing system, rather than rating or ranking/scoring. Similar to how reviewers rate maps now, but maybe slightly different, to avoid shaming maps, but still provide insight in the type of map... Maybe...
Box map **********
Custom content **********
Detail/Mapping **********
Map size **********
So these wouldn't give a score, but rather tell others how much of something they were... I'm sure there are others or a better way if wording it, but everyone could vote or add the info, without there being any malicious motive. Especially since we all value different things when it comes to maps.
-
I only became a map reviewer because I liked writing the reviews. Honestly, if anyone was to be the sole provider of the ranking system, it should be people with Community Mapper (and probably Scripter too) rank, who know what goes into a good map. Maybe reviewers too, not sure.
1. I disagree with 90% of the scores on the Reviews section, cause you get shit like "I only played it once and got bored so I give it 3/10 for replayability" and "There was a WaW stock gun so -3 points on custom content" other crap.
2. Reviewers don't bother putting the same effort of review into a shit map, so the reviews section is mostly maps with 30+/40 score. A ranking/voting system would be waaaaay better.
3. Reviewers usually don't bother making reviews for maps that already have 1 review. So you're left with 1 person's opinion to rank a map.
4. Anyone can become a reviewer by having an opinion. Mappers need to have skill and creativity.
5. Review system is shit, we just have to conform to it because Trem says so. I would SO MUCH prefer it if reviewers could use something like grades A/B/C/D/F without the 4 categories (which aren't even that good). For example "[B+] NDU Reimagined" or "[C-] Malibu Drive" or "[F] CubeBoxMcFlaps v4.3".
-
I actually add rating systems on my Custom maps Idea (If people even read them)
(IE:5-4-3-2-1)
-
CubeBoxMcFlaps v4.3
DL link? :troll:
-
1. I disagree with 90% of the scores on the Reviews section, cause you get shit like "I only played it once and got bored so I give it 3/10 for replayability" and "There was a WaW stock gun so -3 points on custom content" other crap.
I have to heavily agree with this, and its also the reason why i have a problem with complete randoms dropping their"opinions and silly reviews" on mappers release topics
Origins for me, the first 10 times absolutely SUCKED - like absolute balls
maybe 18 hours in when we got a handle on it, it "became" fun. I would have thought "gamers" of all people coule comprehend the theories behind that
i mean how many times have we seen
"can you just enable the cheats"
"can you just remove the bosses they are too hard"
makes it completely pointless for us to add anything really, if they are just gonna cheat past it, or ask for its removal. If its hard, its hard for a reason, part of that reason is so you get a sense of accomplishment - making you want to do it "again" later, and faster, or more efficiently, with friends this time etc etc etc
the "reason" they end up getting bored is because they completely removed the "challenge", or if they cant just give up and slate the map as "too hard" - and by nature the human race is encouraged by something they cant just "immediately" do
im probably not explaining myself right, but im sure you guys catch my drift lol
-
The UGX Launcher will allow you to rate a map out of 10 stars, this feature has already been planned for more than a year.
-
If the mods can't distinguish between something that took 5 mins to make and something that has obviously had effort put into then I'm more than happy to fulfill that role, it doesn't take a genius to see that something like 'Box Sniper One Window NGT Challenge Cube' should go in the 'New Mapper' section and something like Herrenhaus or Leviathan should go in the proper map section - it's a disgrace they are even in the same forum subsection IMO (but then again what do I know?)
+1
-
The UGX Launcher will allow you to rate a map out of 10 stars, this feature has already been planned for more than a year.
Yes but I don't understand why we can't have it on the forums as well? Why is it only one or the other?
-
One thing I forgot to add to my last post is that the Custom Map Reviews section scores will be directly used by the UGX Launcher and any future web-based map browsing section we may or may not add.
If the map has three reviews in the Custom Map Reviews section, some information from them will be displayed and an average score will be given. All of this data will be searchable. If you want to find all the maps which have scored a 9 or higher for Level of Detail you will be able to. You can completely ignore user rating stars if you wish.
The 10 star rating system will be similar to ZM, but there will be minimum requirements for users to have the ability to leave a rating so that people can't just spam a map with low ratings if they dislike the mapper.
Yes but I don't understand why we can't have it on the forums as well? Why is it only one or the other?
We don't want people to even bother browsing the forums for map downloads anymore - its not the right type of format for downloads, its for discussion. The launcher will be the place to go for all the maps and there won't be massive delays in map approval like there are right now. people will be able to submit a map themselves and the staff will be able to approve it.
-
One thing I forgot to add to my last post is that the Custom Map Reviews section scores will be directly used by the UGX Launcher and any future web-based map browsing section we may or may not add.
If the map has three reviews in the Custom Map Reviews section, some information from them will be displayed and an average score will be given. All of this data will be searchable. If you want to find all the maps which have scored a 9 or higher for Level of Detail you will be able to. You can completely ignore user rating stars if you wish.
The 10 star rating system will be similar to ZM, but there will be minimum requirements for users to have the ability to leave a rating so that people can't just spam a map with low ratings if they dislike the mapper.
We don't want people to even bother browsing the forums for map downloads anymore - its not the right type of format for downloads, its for discussion. The launcher will be the place to go for all the maps and there won't be massive delays in map approval like there are right now. people will be able to submit a map themselves and the staff will be able to approve it.
OK thanks for explaining your rationale behind it. So I guess the question now is, what's the rough ETA on the Launcher release?
-
OK thanks for explaining your rationale behind it. So I guess the question now is, what's the rough ETA on the Launcher release?
Well we got delayed at least a month by the whole Mikey fiasco, and currently Delta had to put development on hold while he took care of some college work he had to do. So ideally we're looking at the end of March but that's tentative obviously.
-
I'd vote for a categorizing system, rather than rating or ranking/scoring. Similar to how reviewers rate maps now, but maybe slightly different, to avoid shaming maps, but still provide insight in the type of map... Maybe...
Box map **********
Custom content **********
Detail/Mapping **********
Map size **********
So these wouldn't give a score, but rather tell others how much of something they were... I'm sure there are others or a better way if wording it, but everyone could vote or add the info, without there being any malicious motive. Especially since we all value different things when it comes to maps.
See now this is what i was thinking as well. But i think that we should have it so that box maps are not categorized in the same area as maps with more than 4 rooms. And not just buyable doors with perks or weapons inside. I'm talking spawners, windows, zones, other doors, details, and other types of things. Even if its just a simple house with 5 rooms. Have the same system for all types. So a have box map section, a Normal map section, and maybe have a behemoth section for massive maps like herrenhaus and oil rig. I also like the idea of only letting color ranked people vote. I like the idea of custom map reviewers being able too place rating but i think we should do it the rotten tomatoes way. Have a critics rating and have a Fans rating, and then have an overall rating between the two.
..... whoops didn't realise this had been resolved already. -
the perfect system would be map reviews have to apply for the position with more than just making a review, like maybe you need to review a variety of maps and if the reviews reflect how good the Map actually is, they get the status and can then rate maps.
We do not have the time to have such an elaborate application review for this. Especially when we get so many applications (I get almost one a week at this point so imagine how many I turn down). It would be more productive to notify me if an existing map reviewer doesn't deserve the title. I don't have the time to police them myself, I have way too many more important responsibilities to tend to around here right now.
1. I disagree with 90% of the scores on the Reviews section, cause you get shit like "I only played it once and got bored so I give it 3/10 for replayability" and "There was a WaW stock gun so -3 points on custom content" other crap.
Who is doing this? See my answer above about reporting irresponsible map reviewers.
2. Reviewers don't bother putting the same effort of review into a shit map, so the reviews section is mostly maps with 30+/40 score. A ranking/voting system would be waaaaay better.
Of course not. Why put effort into the review when no effort was put into the map? And there are some very elaborate shit map reviews, but they are humorous as a result.
3. Reviewers usually don't bother making reviews for maps that already have 1 review. So you're left with 1 person's opinion to rank a map.
Well, you're a map reviewer aren't you? Break the stereotype and make some duplicate reviews.
5. Review system is shit, we just have to conform to it because Trem says so. I would SO MUCH prefer it if reviewers could use something like grades A/B/C/D/F without the 4 categories (which aren't even that good). For example "[B+] NDU Reimagined" or "[C-] Malibu Drive" or "[F] CubeBoxMcFlaps v4.3".
Lol all you're accomplishing with ABCDF is diluting the review score by an additional 20%. Having the current 4 category score system worth 25% each is the same as an ABCD score system, it's just missing the F. And if a map deserves an F then why review it? WTF does a C- mean for a map? I would much rather see what categories it scored low in than have to guess from your review and letter grade.
-
Does not have to be ELABORATE, it could be a quick/effective way to rate maps they play if they are good or buggy.
Just as visual representation add stars on topic for others to decide for themselves if its worth playing or not.
By no means should it look like this only a quick example how simple it could be to implement.
(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fyg1oCtO.png&hash=e350486ba1e267e14a324eb45990582070ad00c5)
-
Does not have to be ELABORATE, it could be a quick/effective way to rate maps they play if they are good or buggy.
Just as visual representation add stars on topic for others to decide for themselves if its worth playing or not.
By no means should it look like this only a quick example how simple it could be to implement.
(http://i.imgur.com/yg1oCtO.png)
Fake! :troll:
Why is Pashan's Overflow the only one with no rating? ;D
-
I am impressed that you would do this because doesn't it cost you money to have these maps in the launcher instead of having a hosting site containing the downloads?
It does cost us money which is why donations are important and so is ad revenue :)
-
Well I helped out then ;)
I will donate again if I get my internship, but I will never pay for Oil Rig Beta :troll:
(https://www.ugx-mods.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.meme.am%2Finstances%2F61594117.jpg&hash=301525b61dc7b9b4bfa09e418f995c9e8d676d50)
-
One feature I would like to see implemented, is to be able to see which maps have been made by a mapper. Perfect example, I only recently started playing for the first time, and enjoying the map THE MORGUE by mapper 'tudark'. I would love to be able to easily find a way to see which other maps 'tudark' has made.
Some mappers include which maps they have made, such as 'steviewonder87' in their signature. Which by the way, CHRISTMAS WAREHOUSE and INDUSTRIAL ESTATE are 2 of my favorite maps! But even though he took the time to include this info, they are not links, which won't easily take me to each maps page.
It would be great to have a new menu button simply titled 'Mappers', which when clicked, maybe could be in table form, with the mappers name, list of maps they've made in order by their creation date, and each map linked to its info/download page, social media / website links and a donate button. Maybe the mappers overall could be rated on, so the people putting out the BEST overall maps, will be at the top of the list, as oppose to each individual map getting rated or put into categories.
BUT, it also wouldn't hurt at all to create CATEGORIES for maps in general. :)
-
Some mappers include which maps they have made, such as 'steviewonder87' in their signature. Which by the way, CHRISTMAS WAREHOUSE and INDUSTRIAL ESTATE are 2 of my favorite maps!
:cute:
-
I agree with CODCZ115's idea
Also rather impressive he made no mention of Oil Rig ???
Oh believe me, OIL RIG is just as incredible, the only reason I didn't mention it, is because I have yet to fully get into it. After playing it when it was initially released, and failing miserably at it solo, I plan on playing it co-op and making a real run at it. :)
Put it this way, ANY map 'steviewonder87' makes, will be a MUST PLAY. Most likely a bonafide classic.
-
The Launcher will have filters to see maps made by specific people.
-
The Launcher will have filters to see maps made by specific people.
Great to hear. But will all maps that are in the Zombie Maps section be featured in the launcher?
-
Great to hear. But will all maps that are in the Zombie Maps section be featured in the launcher?
As long as they aren't total shit and follow the requirements, most likely yes. We havent finalized our requirements yet.
-
Well I helped out then ;)
I will donate again if I get my internship, but I will never pay for Oil Rig Beta :troll:
+1
-
Got a call back today and I didnt get the job :(. I may be reconsidered around Easter however
Well, if it wasn't a paid internship, consider yourself lucky. Could've been screwed over by being paid with "experience" and just used as a human dumpster without getting the job when you're done. Hope it goes well for you in the future though.
-
It's good idea lol